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Author Topic: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.  (Read 6669 times)

Geert Friedhof

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Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« on: September 17, 2017, 08:52:05 PM »

Yep, the resonator guitar player bought a 'modeller'...

Now i have about 5 dB guitar sound and the rest is howling wolves and other crosstalk.

Guess i have to adjust to his new sound.

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Bradford "BJ" James

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 09:36:54 AM »

I feel you bro. These days I'm far less frustrated with guitarists and their toys than I am with lead vocalists and their toys. One guy I had this past weekend sounded like kanye west scuba diving.
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Josh Millward

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 10:57:04 AM »

I feel you bro. These days I'm far less frustrated with guitarists and their toys than I am with lead vocalists and their toys. One guy I had this past weekend sounded like kanye west scuba diving.
Oh good lord yes.

Whenever a lead singer shows up with his own "effects box" I always require a split of the dry microphone before it hits his box. Then I always take the output from his FX box and feed only that to the monitors. I may mix some of it into the house, if it is suitable. They always seem really happy when they get all their FX in their monitor. Everyone else in the band always seems really happy when they get only dry vocal in the monitor. It turns into a Win-Win-Win. LoL!!!
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 11:13:12 AM »

Oh good lord yes.

Whenever a lead singer shows up with his own "effects box" I always require a split of the dry microphone before it hits his box. Then I always take the output from his FX box and feed only that to the monitors. I may mix some of it into the house, if it is suitable. They always seem really happy when they get all their FX in their monitor. Everyone else in the band always seems really happy when they get only dry vocal in the monitor. It turns into a Win-Win-Win. LoL!!!

^^^^^^^  This. Right. Here.

ALWAYS split the singer's mic ahead of his/her FX box.  ALWAYS.

Why?  Because of the bone conductivity in the human head/hearing interface... the singer will perceive much more "dry" sound because of the direct connection.  The result is a much wetter FX mix to make the performer think the balance is right.  It's not, often by 9dB or more.  Singers also tend to not mute the FX while speaking between songs, something that makes YOU look bad so there's that as well.

I'm REALLY over most modeled guitar stuff - a big smiley face EQ curve (or it's distortion-created equal) that is all boom and buzz with precious little genuine guitar sound in between.  It may sound good to the player, trying it in a small space, but it fails on a PA system and in a mix with other instruments and vocals.  Bah Fucking Humbug... and unlike the FX-happy singer, there is no Y-cord style solution.
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Josh Millward

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 11:31:14 AM »

^^^^^^^  This. Right. Here.

ALWAYS split the singer's mic ahead of his/her FX box.  ALWAYS.

Why?  Because of the bone conductivity in the human head/hearing interface... the singer will perceive much more "dry" sound because of the direct connection.  The result is a much wetter FX mix to make the performer think the balance is right.  It's not, often by 9dB or more.  Singers also tend to not mute the FX while speaking between songs, something that makes YOU look bad so there's that as well.

I'm REALLY over most modeled guitar stuff - a big smiley face EQ curve (or it's distortion-created equal) that is all boom and buzz with precious little genuine guitar sound in between.  It may sound good to the player, trying it in a small space, but it fails on a PA system and in a mix with other instruments and vocals.  Bah Fucking Humbug... and unlike the FX-happy singer, there is no Y-cord style solution.

I am absolutely right there with you, Tim.

On bass and acoustic guitars, I also take my DI box and try to get it directly at the instrument output, before his pedals and "stuff". I'll also take a direct output from the bass head, if it is available, especially if the player is whining about his pedals being excluded. How much of which one to use depends totally on what they sound like. Electric guitars are the biggest pain because this modeling stuff can just make everything a massive mess.
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Josh Millward
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 12:29:49 PM »

When or where will it end?

A few weeks ago i had an acoustic trio where the harmonica player had an fx box...
When i let him hear the difference the box was gone very fast.
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Steve Oldridge

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 12:35:26 PM »

When or where will it end?

A few weeks ago i had an acoustic trio where the harmonica player had an fx box...
When i let him hear the difference the box was gone very fast.
Many folks are convinced that these "boxes" make them sound better, until proven otherwise.
I love the guys - bass, keys or guitars - that have a BBE in their racks.
I always ask them to turn it off. 
"Why? I love the sound!"
Then I fix their EQ and get the "SMH" response !! :)
Then there are those that are tone deaf and can't hear the difference.
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 03:23:06 PM »

There was a good discussion about modelers a few years ago here.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,155946.0.html
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 08:13:22 PM »

Yep, the resonator guitar player bought a 'modeller'...

Now i have about 5 dB guitar sound and the rest is howling wolves and other crosstalk.

Guess i have to adjust to his new sound.
I hope someday you get to hear a Kemper in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.  I was a tube amp purist for decades .... and then only boutique amps at that.  The Kemper is my only gig rig now.  My back will never go back to shleping around 4x12 cabs. 

I can honestly say that my tone is better than it has ever been.

Not all digital amps are created equally ;)
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Steve Garris

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 09:32:25 PM »

I hope someday you get to hear a Kemper in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.  I was a tube amp purist for decades .... and then only boutique amps at that.  The Kemper is my only gig rig now.  My back will never go back to shleping around 4x12 cabs. 

I can honestly say that my tone is better than it has ever been.

Not all digital amps are created equally ;)

I believe you! Give 5 guitar players a Marshall amp and a pedal or two. 4 of them will manage to sound like crap, but 1 will sound great, regardless of gear.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 09:32:25 PM »


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