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Author Topic: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.  (Read 1474 times)

Callan Browne

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 10:29:40 pm »

I'm also a convert to the guitar modelling world and quicky realised that you must set up your sounds at gig volume, which I do at home on my srx812's. Anybody using headphones or lower volumes is going to sound like s**t once running at a gig through the pa.

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Callan Browne

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 10:32:08 pm »

Yep, the resonator guitar player bought a 'modeller'...

Now i have about 5 dB guitar sound and the rest is howling wolves and other crosstalk.

Guess i have to adjust to his new sound.
Hey Geert, see if you can help the guitarist ahead of time to get a better sound, maybe by letting them plug into your pa to tweak their sounds?

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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 11:04:37 pm »

Had a guy a few years ago take a very expensive Gibson acoustic/electric guitar and run it through not one, not two...but three Fishman preamp pedals!!!

All were different models connected in series, kind of like every time a new model came out he just added to what he was already using. Yea it sounded like total ass!!!

Unfortunately there was no time at that show to set up a second DI pre pedal send.

Stephen Kirby

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 01:37:57 am »

  My back will never go back to shleping around 4x12 cabs. 
I don't equate digital vs. tubes to have anything to do with 4x12 cabs.  Plug a good head into a Bogner Cube and it will sound as good, albeit not as loud, as any 4-12.  Many many folks are using these behind the dummy stacks.

Played an AxeFX the other week.  Total gear nut had it set up.  No way could I get the response out of it that I get from my Fuchs.  But maybe equivalent to a Mesa Lonestar.
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 04:38:58 am »

Hey Geert, see if you can help the guitarist ahead of time to get a better sound, maybe by letting them plug into your pa to tweak their sounds?

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He never used one, except for a few stomp boxes, and never told me. It was at an outdoor festival so no time. It was horrible. The VU meters stayed at -10dB. No difference in him playing or not. He could not get within 10 feet of his amplifier before getting feedback. Guess the resonator part works... And why use an (expensive) resonator guitar when you want to sound like a cheap electric guitar? Just muted inbetween songs.

Dont get me wrong. I have seen modellers on ELECTRIC guitars for many years, sometimes great sounding, but what is with the obsession to use this crap on acoustic instruments?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 04:45:54 am by Geert Friedhof »
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 07:15:07 am »

I don't equate digital vs. tubes to have anything to do with 4x12 cabs.  Plug a good head into a Bogner Cube and it will sound as good, albeit not as loud, as any 4-12.  Many many folks are using these behind the dummy stacks.

Played an AxeFX the other week.  Total gear nut had it set up.  No way could I get the response out of it that I get from my Fuchs.  But maybe equivalent to a Mesa Lonestar.
The kemper has a "recording" or "profiling" mode where you use a microphone, and optionally a DI from the amp as well, to "capture" the sound and characteristics of the amp.  It does this using a frequency sweep and some clicks and so on.  The end result is very nearly identical to the amp being "profiled" when sent through a good flat full range speaker.

In fact, I would bet you that you could not pick out your Fuchs in a recording from the Kemper.  Check Youtube and you will find several instances where people try live with an amp in the room .... some successfully, some not.

The Kemper isn't a modeler to be fair.  It is a profiler.  It "captures" amps then reproduces what they are doing to the input.

Using the stock profiles will not give you the same sound as your amp since the profile will not be done with your amp setup the way you have it, nor will the tubes be biased like yours, nor will the eq be setup the way you like yours.  If you profile YOUR amp, the profile will sound identical to your amp.  It is amazing.

Many people who have multiple tube amps profile all their amps, then bring the Kemper to their gig.  Neat trick to get a Fender black face and a Bogner .... and a Marshal JMP 45, etc, etc, etc all on stage in 5 minutes.
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Dave Batistig

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2017, 10:36:26 am »

The kemper has a "recording" or "profiling" mode where you use a microphone, and optionally a DI from the amp as well, to "capture" the sound and characteristics of the amp.  It does this using a frequency sweep and some clicks and so on.  The end result is very nearly identical to the amp being "profiled" when sent through a good flat full range speaker.

In fact, I would bet you that you could not pick out your Fuchs in a recording from the Kemper.  Check Youtube and you will find several instances where people try live with an amp in the room .... some successfully, some not.

The Kemper isn't a modeler to be fair.  It is a profiler.  It "captures" amps then reproduces what they are doing to the input.

Using the stock profiles will not give you the same sound as your amp since the profile will not be done with your amp setup the way you have it, nor will the tubes be biased like yours, nor will the eq be setup the way you like yours.  If you profile YOUR amp, the profile will sound identical to your amp.  It is amazing.

Many people who have multiple tube amps profile all their amps, then bring the Kemper to their gig.  Neat trick to get a Fender black face and a Bogner .... and a Marshal JMP 45, etc, etc, etc all on stage in 5 minutes.

I saw Queensryche last December and both Michael Wilton and the young guy (forgot his name) were using Kemper amps. Their FOH guy told me Michael had "profiled" his Marshall's with the Kemper...it sounded good..sounded like Queensryche. I recently provided sound for Crowder at a local fair. Their guitarist was using Kemper, again, it sounded good. That all said, I have heard many, MANY players with AveFX, Line6, or whatever else and it sounded terrible. Grainy, brittle, etc, etc.

I was on a large stage recently at a festival with my band, an 80s tribute band, and I had a wall of Marshalls behind me, 3 full stacks. 2 of which were in use in a quasi stero rig, one for looks. All vintage JCM800s, modified with efects loops. I had this young dude come up to me after the show and tell me that my guitar tone was killer sick but I had to "get with the times" and quit lumping around all these Marshalls. He proceeded to tell me how he can get this awesome JCM800 tone from his Line 6 modeler, yada, yada, yada. I asked him who he played with and he told me he "records at home" and plays thru his headphones...I smiled and thanked him for checking out our show. 8) ;D
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Steve Oldridge

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 12:41:27 pm »

That all said, I have heard many, MANY players with AveFX, Line6, or whatever else and it sounded terrible. Grainy, brittle, etc, etc.
I've heard as many that sounded good.
If the guitar player can't get decent tone out of a stand-alone amp.. they stand no chance with most modellers.  Too many I've seen take those "skills" and think a modeller is going to make them play better. Garbage in, is still garbage out, no matter how much you process it in between :)
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Jay Marr

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2017, 03:46:16 pm »

Modelers can sound amazing or awful.  It is 100% based on the ability of the user.
Let me say that again:  IT IS 100% BASED ON THE ABILITY OF THE USER.

I've used Axe FX, Kemper, Line 6, etc.  I can get my tone out of any of them (like it or not).
I prefer the Axe FX because the effects are also stellar. 
That being said - I also still LOVE my all tube Marshall/Mesa rig (and will never get rid of it)....but it's not practical for local gigging.
I gig my Axe FX over 100 times per year....it's a godsend.

Unfortunately, modelers give beginner/novice players the false confidence (and affordability) to think that because their rig emulates a Marshall, that it automatically sound good.
Dialing patches at low volume and/or on headphones....big mistake.

I understand why some engineers don't like modelers (because many people just don't know how to get a good tone).
But it's not the modeler's fault....it's always pilot error (as long as they own a decent modeler).

If you truly think the Kemper/Axe FX units are not worth of the big stage.  Go google some Dweezil Zappa or Larry Marshall clips.  They get beautiful tone out of the Axe FX.

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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Oh dear, the guitarist has a new fx toy.
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 04:47:25 pm »

In the thread I linked to earlier, there is a link to all the Axe-FX players. Guaranteed there will be several players on that list that every guitar player will respect. The key is they don't have to use the product. They have techs who set up, tweak and maintain their rigs. They already own tons of analogue gear and they really don't need to go to a modeler for any reason other than it works better for them.


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