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Author Topic: Power Conditioner Rebooting  (Read 1370 times)

Craig Mashburn

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2017, 04:16:05 pm »

Rob - have you seen the new Predator inverter models?  Debbie has one too I believe.  They are as quiet as the Honda, more fuel efficient and appears to be a big winner.

I want to make it clear I am not talking about the construction generators. 

The inverters are very clean.

The 2000 watt looks to be extremely portable as well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html
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dick rees

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2017, 05:15:49 pm »

The 2000 watt looks to be extremely portable as well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html

There's a reason it costs half the price of a Honda, several, actually:

1.  Inverter is a "stepped sine wave" digital approximation of a true sine wave as your Honda has.

2.  The SPL figure given is 3-4dB more than the Honda, the measurement taken at an unspecified distance whereas Honda give the measurement distance.  Without "apples to apples" measurement distance, effective comparison cannot be made.  My job Sunday had bicycle repair outfits on either side.  The one SR was a Honda 2K, the one SL was one of the half-price models.  Standing at my 3000, the half-price 2000 located 20 feet away was louder than mine.

Given that you have the larger, more suitably matched output : need model, it makes no sense whatsoever to buy a cheap, louder model with less than sufficient output.  Buy a nice, sturdy, inexpensive four wheeled  "furniture dolly" at Home Depot, ratchet strap the generator to it and you're set.  If you want to spend more and keep it stock, I believe Honda may have a wheel kit.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2017, 05:46:25 pm »

There's a reason it costs half the price of a Honda, several, actually:

1.  Inverter is a "stepped sine wave" digital approximation of a true sine wave as your Honda has.

2.  The SPL figure given is 3-4dB more than the Honda, the measurement taken at an unspecified distance whereas Honda give the measurement distance.  Without "apples to apples" measurement distance, effective comparison cannot be made.  My job Sunday had bicycle repair outfits on either side.  The one SR was a Honda 2K, the one SL was one of the half-price models.  Standing at my 3000, the half-price 2000 located 20 feet away was louder than mine.

Given that you have the larger, more suitably matched output : need model, it makes no sense whatsoever to buy a cheap, louder model with less than sufficient output.  Buy a nice, sturdy, inexpensive four wheeled  "furniture dolly" at Home Depot, ratchet strap the generator to it and you're set.  If you want to spend more and keep it stock, I believe Honda may have a wheel kit.

And a 2000 watt unit is unlikely to have the zoobs his PA required.



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Mac Kerr

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2017, 06:15:29 pm »

All of the recommendation for a generator are probably moot. I have been to many of these competitions to see my nephews play, and while I can't say for sure that they are forbidden I have never seen one at a competition.

There is usuall 1 outlet provided on the 50 yard line and each band plugs into it as they assemble their pit and set their flags and props.

The OP would be well served by a rolling cart to carry his mixer and amps with an attached 100' power cable. A simple quad box would be better than a "power conditioner". The amps should plug into the quad, as should the UPS. Only the mixer should plug into the UPS.

Mac
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2017, 06:52:20 pm »

All of the recommendation for a generator are probably moot. I have been to many of these competitions to see my nephews play, and while I can't say for sure that they are forbidden I have never seen one at a competition.

There is usuall 1 outlet provided on the 50 yard line and each band plugs into it as they assemble their pit and set their flags and props.

The OP would be well served by a rolling cart to carry his mixer and amps with an attached 100' power cable. A simple quad box would be better than a "power conditioner". The amps should plug into the quad, as should the UPS. Only the mixer should plug into the UPS.

Mac

I may be going against the grain here.  But a properly sized UPS should have no problem powering an amplifier. I had a recent installation in which the AHJ required a portion of the sound system to run off of UPS for 15 minutes (in case the e-power genny failed to kick in).   The rig was VTX, the amps were 4x3500's, and the system ran at an ample level for 80 minutes on a 3000VA UPS. I have other installations with Danley GH60 speakers on iTech5000s and 1500VA UPSs with no issues for 5 years now.   I am not at these sites to check batteries for these guys, but if they were cutting out or constantly switching to battery when the systems get pushed, I would hear about it.      I will of course pass on having to wheel out a rack onto the field with a bunch of amps and a 3000VA UPS.     

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Mike Sokol

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2017, 09:40:45 pm »

We are not talking about a Harbor Freight Predator. Dick is talking about a Honda Inverter type generator. They are quiet and produce stable clean power.

I understand safety limitations of gasoline in your situation. I do an outside gig for a big corporate event every year with a large genny for main power, and several small Honda inverter generators for the various bouncy tents, etc...  Their safety officer positions a fire extinguisher within 10 feet of every generator and makes us move any gas containers to a separate location. Not a bad thing, but without compliance he could shut down our entire show.

On the other hand, if you could get away with a small inverter generator, the Honda's are about as quiet as you can get. Here's a video of me demonstrating Neutral bonding on an EU3000 generator, and as you can see/hear I'm right in front of the genny with a headset mic maybe 2 feet away from it, and you can hardly hear it at all. Take 10 steps away from it and the sound practically disappears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3ZKDN-8Go

If you COULD get permission to have a gasoline generator at the competition you could rent one for the weekend and see how it works for you.

On the other hand, the advice about using a heavy SOOW 10 gauge cord with a quad box is a good one. There have been a number of electrocution deaths at schools and carnivals in the last year, and these were likely caused by a cheap extension cord draped over a fence or lighting fixture. So do your best to keep it safe for you and your students. You owe it to them.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 06:41:58 am by Mike Sokol »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 12:34:23 am »

All of the recommendation for a generator are probably moot. I have been to many of these competitions to see my nephews play, and while I can't say for sure that they are forbidden I have never seen one at a competition.

There is usuall 1 outlet provided on the 50 yard line and each band plugs into it as they assemble their pit and set their flags and props.

The OP would be well served by a rolling cart to carry his mixer and amps with an attached 100' power cable. A simple quad box would be better than a "power conditioner". The amps should plug into the quad, as should the UPS. Only the mixer should plug into the UPS.

Mac

I do agree we squirreled off on the gennie discussion, sorry.

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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2017, 11:31:41 am »

Kinda figured it was put in this system more as a rack mountable power strip.

We actually have a UPS in the box as well. Allows us to boot up the digital board before we have it plugged in to power since the board takes 45 seconds to boot.

I will try putting the amps on the non battery side of the UPS.

It's kind of been lost in the discussion, but what is happening with the setup the way it was is that the amps draw more power than the UPS can provide. This causes the voltage to drop, possibly causing the Furman to disconnect and definitely causing the board to reboot.

Without getting any extra equipment, make the Furman the first piece in the power chain (it will serve as your distro). Plug the UPS into that, and the board into the UPS. Plug the amps into the Furman (so the amps aren't powered by the UPS). That will overcome the problem of overloading the UPS.

Then get a heavy extension cord: 10 AWG if you need 50 feet or more; 12 AWG would probably work for 25 feet or less. Do not use any cord smaller than 12 AWG. Using a heavy cord will go a long ways to preventing voltage drop. Keep the extension cord in good repair: learn proper "over-under" coiling technique (around the elbow is a big NO-NO) and keep the connectors in good repair, especially.

DO NOT USE SOMEONE ELSE'S EXTENSION CORD. EVER. Especially if it's orange. You don't know how it has been taken care of, if it's been abused, if the connectors are worn or not, if the field-replaced connectors are wired properly, or if it's even the proper size.

EDIT: If the jacket on the cord becomes compromised (and it's not near the ends where you can cut it out and put on a new connector), DISCARD and replace the cord. A damaged jacket exposes the insulation on the wires, which can then be easily damaged putting everyone at risk. Electrical safety should be your number one concern, BEFORE quality of sound.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 01:23:35 pm by Jonathan Johnson »
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2017, 01:15:42 pm »

Are you sure that your batteries in the UPS arenít dying. I had to replace all of the batteries in a UPS recently. 
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dick rees

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2017, 01:28:25 pm »


Without getting any extra equipment, make the Furman the first piece in the power chain (it will serve as your distro).

Can't sign off on this.

Get rid of the Furman or anything like it.  They're current limiting potential points of failure.  A simple quad box in the rack with a hard-wired tail will get rid of the hinky bottleneck now existing. 

UPS for board boot-up and speaker power sends leaves a spare outlet on the quad box.  The Furman isn't doing anything at all except to split power to multiple taps...but if it's the typical 15 amp stuff designed for rack powering and there are 20 amps available you've got a 5amp discrepancy which does you no good.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 07:46:52 pm by dick rees »
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