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Author Topic: Power Conditioner Rebooting  (Read 2221 times)

Chris Hindle

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 12:57:05 pm »

This is a portable system that has to be setup and torn down in seconds. There has to be some sort of power strip because we cannot run multiple extension cords.
So, random failure is acceptable to your group ?
Power from 1 outlet is NOT unlimited.
Use the beefiest extension you can, but 15 or 20 amps is best case all you've got to work with.
Get a small distro......
Chris.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 01:48:04 pm »

This is a portable system that has to be setup and torn down in seconds. There has to be some sort of power strip because we cannot run multiple extension cords.

In seconds?  The Super Bowl 1/2 time show doesn't have those types of limitations.

UPS's are for computers (mixer boards are computers today).

Power strips are for studio's and IT racks

Get a distro, put a quad box in your rack.  Something that will hold up.

Also, extensions cords are for plugging in Christmas lights.   

How about stepping back and telling us your application so the community can offer some suggestions. With each turn and additional reveal the information gets scarier.

Make sure you include distance from power source.

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Craig Mashburn

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 02:06:11 pm »

In seconds?  The Super Bowl 1/2 time show doesn't have those types of limitations.

UPS's are for computers (mixer boards are computers today).

Power strips are for studio's and IT racks

Get a distro, put a quad box in your rack.  Something that will hold up.

Also, extensions cords are for plugging in Christmas lights.   

How about stepping back and telling us your application so the community can offer some suggestions. With each turn and additional reveal the information gets scarier.

Make sure you include distance from power source.

As I mentioned in my original post, this is for a high school marching band. At competitions, the sound board needs to be up and running first thing while 6 microphones and one piano are plugged into it. This is why we have the mixer on a UPS because it takes 45 seconds to boot and if it accidentally came unplugged it would take another 45 seconds. We have less than 5 minutes to complete all setup. We are also only guaranteed to have one outlet available.

We perform at many different stadiums so there is no set distance. All are different. We use 100' cord and that has always been enough.

Thanks for your input. Also, what is a "distro"?
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 02:14:46 pm »

Craig...

You might want to consider purchasing a small, quiet generator such as a Honda EU2000i so you don't have to run a long cable...likely not of sufficient gauge to avoid voltage drop over distance and certainly a time-wasting tripping/liability hazard.

Buy one yourself.  You'll find other uses for it and you'll be VERY glad you did.
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Craig Mashburn

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 02:23:59 pm »

Craig...

You might want to consider purchasing a small, quiet generator such as a Honda EU2000i so you don't have to run a long cable...likely not of sufficient gauge to avoid voltage drop over distance and certainly a time-wasting tripping/liability hazard.

Buy one yourself.  You'll find other uses for it and you'll be VERY glad you did.

Do not think using a generator is an option. Every band out there is using a very similar setup. In fact, at some competitions, the extension cord it already in place and everyone uses the same one.

I understand here everyone is recommending the best way to do things to get the best results. I appreciate that and will try my best to implement the suggestions. However, we have limitations. Time, money and rules. I plan to get in front of the system soon and try some different configs to see if we can overcome this issue.
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Craig Mashburn

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 02:28:13 pm »

In case anyone wants to look at the system, this is what we have...

http://www.mccormicksnet.com/product-p/5000327.htm

Actually, it is almost that. There are a couple of differences. We do not have that McCormicks power panel that is shown.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 02:30:18 pm by Craig Mashburn »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 02:42:27 pm »

In case anyone wants to look at the system, this is what we have...

http://www.mccormicksnet.com/product-p/5000327.htm

Actually, it is almost that. There are a couple of differences. We do not have that McCormicks power panel that is shown.

I am getting in a new business.  Some Yammie club speakers on wheel boards with oversized casters and a gig rack nets a 60% margin.  However I digress.

Most of us have done HS football and I am not sure you realize how small and quiet the inverter generators are.  Harbor Freight has a really nice one that is 1/2 the price of the Honda.  It must be the inverter model.

With all this being said, your original point is simply you made the mistake of plugging the power amplifiers into the protected outlet on the UPS.  Don't do that.  The Furman, while not optimal is fine for the power amps. 

Your two other issues:

1 - I am sure you are not using your amps hard but you still should understand that each one of them can draw as much, if not more, than a standard power outlet can provide.

2 - 100ft extension cords have a tremendous voltage drop.  Also, extension cords are not legal for this type of application.  Most folks are just plain ignorant of this fact, but tramping and driving things over the cord can cause issues.  The correct cable for this application is called SOOW.  You can get it at Home Depot/Lowes and pay a pretty penny or check Amazon or your local electrical supply house.

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Craig Mashburn

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 02:53:39 pm »

I am getting in a new business.  Some Yammie club speakers on wheel boards with oversized casters and a gig rack nets a 60% margin.  However I digress.

Most of us have done HS football and I am not sure you realize how small and quiet the inverter generators are.  Harbor Freight has a really nice one that is 1/2 the price of the Honda.  It must be the inverter model.

With all this being said, your original point is simply you made the mistake of plugging the power amplifiers into the protected outlet on the UPS.  Don't do that.  The Furman, while not optimal is fine for the power amps. 

Your two other issues:

1 - I am sure you are not using your amps hard but you still should understand that each one of them can draw as much, if not more, than a standard power outlet can provide.

2 - 100ft extension cords have a tremendous voltage drop.  Also, extension cords are not legal for this type of application.  Most folks are just plain ignorant of this fact, but tramping and driving things over the cord can cause issues.  The correct cable for this application is called SOOW.  You can get it at Home Depot/Lowes and pay a pretty penny or check Amazon or your local electrical supply house.

Football games are one thing. Competitions are another. Competitions are very quiet environments and I am not even sure if certain places would allow a generator. However, if they do, would the 2000 watt Predator be enough? Watts, amps, all electrical stuff really is not in my wheelhouse.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 02:55:53 pm »

Craig...

Forgive me for being blunt, but your knowledge in this situation extends only as far as the apparent time and budget limitations of the task, falling short of the requisite technical and safety issues involved.  As such, you're asking the wrong questions and tending to disregard answers and information pertaining to proper and SAFE practice, placing such considerations after budget issues.

"Everybody does it" is not a legitimate basis for prodedures. 
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Rob Spence

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Re: Power Conditioner Rebooting
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 02:57:26 pm »

If you are trying to get loud with the system pictured over a single long extension cord, you are going to fail. Compressors are going to be your friend to reduce the peaks but you are going to see a pretty big voltage drop when you push the volume and that will shut down your power amps.

I would say to buy a real heavy duty power cord to bring with you and get it plugged into good power in advance. Depending on whatever someone else did is Russian roulette.


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