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Author Topic: AES50 splitting  (Read 2437 times)

Andrew Broughton

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 11:48:21 am »

I've talked to a Midas engineer about doing this on X32 consoles for my live mixing seminars, and he said you can daisy-chain a dozen consoles via the AES50A and B connections, just like putting two of them together for a FOH/Monitor connection. However, you're still stuck with the first console setting the incoming preamp gain, and all other consoles doing a gain-trim for incoming level. Plus there will be additional clock and signal delays added as you get further down the daisy-chain. His recommendation was to put a Dante card in each console and not mess with the daisy-chain setup. 
That was one of my concerns, latency and that each console in the chain is "processing" the signal and clock and sending it back out. One console goes down and it takes out the whole system.
Funny that they recommend using the protocol they should have used from the get-go. The sad thing is that if we're talking about X32-Core devices as mixers, adding a Dante card doubles the cost of the mixer.
Thanks, Mike.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:50:57 am by Andrew Broughton »
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 12:00:13 pm »

So there really isn't a device that takes a single AES50 feed and sends it to multiple destinations?
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 12:45:51 pm »

So there really isn't a device that takes a single AES50 feed and sends it to multiple destinations?

Maybe this "inexpensive little guy" can do it....http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Midas/Mixers/DSP-Routers/NEUTRON/p/P0AKR

A manual is non-existent....
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Brian Jojade

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 02:22:30 am »

So there really isn't a device that takes a single AES50 feed and sends it to multiple destinations?

No.

AES50 is a point to point protocol. You cannot simply split said signal to multiple destinations.  Theoretically, there could be a box that had multiple AES 50 ports on it that would allow you to do a multiple digital split, however, none exist that I am aware of.

If you're looking to send the audio to multiple destinations, other protocols are much better suited for that.  Dante makes it easy.

Behringer didn't include that in the box, likely for several reasons.  First off is that they would have to license it, increasing the cost out of the box.  The card costs $500. While it might be a little less to have it built in vs a separate card, that's still a significant added cost for a low cost mixer.

Secondly, AES50 is pretty idiot resistant.  Plug in a cable between your mixers, set the clock, and set your routing.  Done.  With Dante, you now have audio over ethernet. So the users need to set up a reliable network in order to get it to work.  Not difficult for the advanced user, but for the beginners, it's a daunting project.

If you're to the point where you need to digitally send your audio to multiple destinations, then it's time to become familiar with the protocols that do that.  Pony up for the right hardware and make it happen.
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Brian Jojade

Andrew Broughton

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 02:32:03 am »

No.

AES50 is a point to point protocol. You cannot simply split said signal to multiple destinations.  Theoretically, there could be a box that had multiple AES 50 ports on it that would allow you to do a multiple digital split, however, none exist that I am aware of.

What about the DL461?

I'm just not sure if it will work on it's own without an XL8 to control it.
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Jason Kelly

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 03:06:40 am »

What about the DL461?

I'm just not sure if it will work on it's own without an XL8 to control it.

The short answer is no, without the XL8 control surface the DL461 is basically a door stop.

As alluded to in a previous post you can daisy-chain consoles to achieve the kind of distribution I think you are looking for. An alternative, depending on the number of AES50 ports your devices have available you can also design a star type system, which may be more flexible. But that would probably require a number of Pro Series consoles, rather than X32 based hardware, due to the port count required.

All the information in previous posts is correct, AES50 was designed as a point to point system, for many reasons (some mentioned above, some not), it was the best compromise at the time. The other thing to remember is that when the Midas digital project was started Dante didn't even exist, let along it being a settled protocol. A lot of water has passed under that bridge in the intervening years, it's easy to forget that.
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MikeHarris

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 06:21:06 am »

A few years ago we supplied a XL8 to a local church and if I remember correctly...the ports support only 24 bidirectional channel at 96k per AES50.
The mind is a terrible thing to waste..so my memory card may be corrupted
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 06:24:21 am by MikeHarris »
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Peter Morris

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 09:06:03 am »

I'm familiar with how Dante sends a signal to multiple destinations by sending multiple copies, but how does it work with AES50 like with Midas or Behringer products?

Say I had an AES50 I/O preamp box. How would I send that signal to 4 mixers for example?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Plug them together with some cat5 and patch ... (within the limits of the desk / racks ports)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buS_PzrqK0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82_lLs2CHMU
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:15:35 am by Peter Morris »
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Peter Morris

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 09:22:18 am »

No.


Secondly, AES50 is pretty idiot resistant.  Plug in a cable between your mixers, set the clock, and set your routing.  Done.  With Dante, you now have audio over ethernet. So the users need to set up a reliable network in order to get it to work.  Not difficult for the advanced user, but for the beginners, it's a daunting project.



So true :-)
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: AES50 splitting
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 11:09:57 am »

As far as I know most guys just run passive splitters for Midas consoles, it would be a real PITA to setup a daisychain between consoles as would be required.

What would be your end use for needing 10 M32s getting the same signal, honestly you would probably be better off with an out of the box Dante product...
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