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Author Topic: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards  (Read 1538 times)

Wesley David

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Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« on: September 09, 2017, 04:00:47 pm »

Hey ProSound peeps -

Man, would I ever be indebted for some help from you knowledgeable folks here. I am running a rig with Turbosound IP2000, basically a knockoff of BOSE line array, with 2 small wedge monitors for Dueling Pianos. We have had bizarre problems.
-Crackling and distortion, even at relatively low to medium volume levels. 
-Tried everything: different cables, DI boxes for keyboards, and DI box for Mackie ProFx12 mixer
-Exchanged Turbosound for a brand new unit: Same exact issues.
-Exchanged Mackie mixer, for an Allen and Heath Zed14, arguably better quality mixer with much more headroom. Same issues, although slightly better.

I would be indebted to the point of mad jubilation for any help. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, or if these issues are endemic to IP2000. Some further details:

-Bluetooth streaming sounds amazing through IP2000, and I can crank the volume to unfathomable levels with NO clipping, crackling, or distortion.
-Similarly, I can plug acoustic guitar and keyboard into the Inputs A and B of IP2000, go extremely loud, with no clipping, crackling, or distortion.

SO WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!! It's ONLY via a mixer that we are having problems, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the unit per se OR the inputs. Now tried 2 different mixers, and 2 different Turbosound speakers, with same problems.

Thanks in advance for your expertise.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 04:03:26 pm »

Hey ProSound peeps -

Man, would I ever be indebted for some help from you knowledgeable folks here.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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dick rees

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 05:26:44 pm »

My opinion after having tried these out is that they're basically unusable crap even for a solo singer-songwriter playing to 20 people.  Get your money back if you can.
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Stu McDoniel

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 06:49:29 pm »

Hey ProSound peeps -

Man, would I ever be indebted for some help from you knowledgeable folks here. I am running a rig with Turbosound IP2000, basically a knockoff of BOSE line array, with 2 small wedge monitors for Dueling Pianos. We have had bizarre problems.
-Crackling and distortion, even at relatively low to medium volume levels. 
-Tried everything: different cables, DI boxes for keyboards, and DI box for Mackie ProFx12 mixer
-Exchanged Turbosound for a brand new unit: Same exact issues.
-Exchanged Mackie mixer, for an Allen and Heath Zed14, arguably better quality mixer with much more headroom. Same issues, although slightly better.

I would be indebted to the point of mad jubilation for any help. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, or if these issues are endemic to IP2000. Some further details:

-Bluetooth streaming sounds amazing through IP2000, and I can crank the volume to unfathomable levels with NO clipping, crackling, or distortion.
-Similarly, I can plug acoustic guitar and keyboard into the Inputs A and B of IP2000, go extremely loud, with no clipping, crackling, or distortion.

SO WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!! It's ONLY via a mixer that we are having problems, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the unit per se OR the inputs. Now tried 2 different mixers, and 2 different Turbosound speakers, with same problems.

Thanks in advance for your expertise.
  I am suspecting the crackling and distortion is some input into your mixer/s.  I suspect gain structure issue at the mixer level. 
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Wesley David

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 08:12:01 pm »

  I am suspecting the crackling and distortion is some input into your mixer/s.  I suspect gain structure issue at the mixer level.

Thanks for your help, Yep after almost an entire day now of research, I think that may have been the issue all along. Been running live sound with bands for years, but basically at the idiot level in terms of genuine knowledge. Nice education here going through the forums.

Do you have any specific advice for gain structure with keyboards? Any good reason to run them through DI boxes into the mixer? Just did an hour long test with Pre-fader-Listen each step of the way, I moved my gain for each channel to where the **loudest chords/vocals were still 'green', then adjusted the channel volume faders and Main faders to achieve a nice mix. We beat the stuffing out of our keys and couldn't get it to clip. I have my fingers crossed, as it has been a real headache for about 4 shows trying to figure this all out.
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Wesley David

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 08:15:35 pm »

My opinion after having tried these out is that they're basically unusable crap even for a solo singer-songwriter playing to 20 people.  Get your money back if you can.

Turbosound specifically, or line array systems in general? This system, while it has been a nightmare trying to figure out (as someone with little pro sound understanding) what was wrong, actually sounds amazing with streaming music. Live sounds good too, although does seem to be extremely sensitive compared to normal speaker cabs.
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Stu McDoniel

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 10:49:40 am »

I realize keyboard levels go up and down by the user.
Setting your input gain levels and output gain levels so they are "in the green" at your highest keyboard levels is correct.
If you see red you are into the clipping/distortion world again.  You could insert compression on the keyboard channel and squeeze
the dynamics of your input signal.   If you do not have experience with compression then you might want to stay away
from it.


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Al Torrance

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 11:15:04 am »

It definitely sounds like your over driving your inputs on your IP or you might need to switch the input on the IP from line level to mic level. If that is not possible, you need to dramatically lower your output on your mixer. Just make sure your not cranking up your channel volume too far past the Master volume of the mixer or you'll be creating distortion within the mixer.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 11:31:48 am »

It definitely sounds like your over driving your inputs on your IP or you might need to switch the input on the IP from line level to mic level. If that is not possible, you need to dramatically lower your output on your mixer. Just make sure your not cranking up your channel volume too far past the Master volume of the mixer or you'll be creating distortion within the mixer.

Al, are you sure about that.  My experience with the IP and almost any other active system with mic and line gain settings is just the opposite.  In the "mic" setting it is very easy to overload the input to the speaker system.  The mic setting is adding a lot of gain and easily overloaded by a line level output from a mixer.  The "line" level setting is designed for a line level signal.  It can be overloaded, but it takes more effort.  I've had clueless rental customers take the output from 3000 watt power amps and patch them into the line level inputs of my QSC K series rental gear.  Usually (but not always) the QSC's survived.

Word of warning: If someone ask for a Speakon to XLR adapter be afraid, be very afraid!
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Yoel Farkas

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Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 03:32:13 pm »

Watch synaudcon video about gain structure.
https://youtu.be/Acu5FLj-D_Q
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Yoel Farkas
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