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Author Topic: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade  (Read 7829 times)

Dave Garoutte

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2018, 12:38:31 pm »

Have you looked at the Colorado Solo line?
Sorry, but I haven't read all the responses, so I don't know if this has come up.
They are RGBA with a nice zoom.  I use the Solo 1 and 2 series and really like the flexibility.
I just did a small install replacing 4 Lekos with 4 Solo 1s and the client is very happy.
I'm considering the their COB line for side washes.
Also changed over to Luminair, which is really simple to setup  and program.
PM me if you want very good pricing on the Chauvet line.
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2018, 06:13:09 pm »

Hi Dave, you mentioned those fixtures in reply #27, to which I followed up asking about the apparent differences between the Solo 1 and Solo 2 in terms of size, output, etc but didn't get a response. 

Do you find the 1 & 2 to be largely different in output?  My typical stages might be 30'w x 15'd at max, with a 13' trim height at max with what I have now for stands.  Looking to bathe the stage with wash with 2-4 per side on t-bars, 4-6 zones.  Not quite ready to commit to trussing at this time.  How many do you use on a typical small to medium band gig?  The beam angle seems to go wider (40deg) on the smaller 60w fixture than the larger 120w fixture (27deg).  Is there much usable light left on the Solo 1 when at widest?  With differing beam angles it's hard to compare on paper.

I've mentioned them a few times in this thread, they seem to be in the same bracket as the Elation Fuze pars as far as specs on paper and price point.  If your clients were happy with them after some Lekos, that sort of answers my question about the color tone on skin.  The color temp preset range is attractive.  Do you recall what wattage and beam angle the Lekos were? 

I'll send you a PM in regards to pricing, but discussing the differences between the two models might be better for everyone else if done in the forum?
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada

Dave Garoutte

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2018, 07:31:38 pm »

Sorry for not following up, I don't follow this forum as much as the sound side.
I use two of the Solo 1s per side for a regular gig with a 20 x 15 (ish) stage.
I ended up making some barn door adapters, but I don't use them often.  At the install, I cut some matt board masks that fit in the gel frames to reduce the over wash when zoomed out.  When they're zoomed to more of a spot, the beams clear the mask for a round beam.

The Solo 2s have quite a bit more output, but have a tri-lobed beam, so I use them on larger stages for washes.  They are larger and heavier than the 1s.  Be aware that both of these are not lightweight fixtures.

Longer distance and wider angles can quickly use up your apparent brightness.  I rarely use the full zoom out on the 1s.  At the install, they run the about half zoomed and half brightness.  They don't try for a really bright stage, but there's certainly more avalable.  I set them up with four fixtures, two for general stage wash and two key lights.

I'll PM the info.
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2018, 04:39:47 pm »

Thanks Dave, that's all great intel!
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada

John Fruits

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2018, 07:39:47 pm »

A few random thoughts:
> I don't think it has been mentioned but the Chroma-Q color one is worth a look, homogenized beam like the COB fixtures, good dimming and video friendly, available in an IP65 version.  Fixed beam but you can add the special beam spread filters like those that ETC used (and Elation). It also accepts standard 6.25 inch beam shaping devices like snoots and barn doors. 
>About those lime emitters, I think ETC used them first in the Colorsource series.  It turns out the lime fits very nicely with the usual RGB emitters. 
>In your search for a more advanced controller, you might find this useful:
https://qlabcookbook.com/1963/02/20/lighting-playground/
Qlab is Mac only and primarily for sound and video cues, but the recently added lights to the mix.  (Sort of like how Soundcraft added DMX to one of their consoles.)  The lighting-playground idea could probably be set up with the free versions of different lighting control software, Nomad, Chamsys, MPC, etc and with the Capture educational version you could have a fairly simple light rig to try out the software on, all without setting up a rig and getting the right dongles. 
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2018, 07:20:47 pm »

John, thank you for the suggestions.  I had not seen the Chroma-Q fixture before, it looks like it could be a great fit.  I'll have to contact the Canadian Distributor to see whether or not it fits the budget, here's hoping.

The Qlab idea is quite interesting too... definitely outside the box but I appreciate the suggestion.  Started reading up on that too.  Cheers!
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada

Jeremy Young

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2018, 07:56:25 pm »

For anyone interested, I'm still spinning my wheels deciding what route to go, and could really use a good smack across the side of the head by someone who's been in my shoes before.  It's looking like I'll be spending $4-6k for this next step after all the little bits and pieces, so I'd like it to have some staying power and flexibility.

I'm still thinking 2 per side on t-bars will be my deployment for front lighting, leaving my Dotz Pars in the back.  That is, until truss makes sense (but right now it really isn't feasible without fast-tracking a storage upgrade that I otherwise want to avoid).  Chroma-Q never got back to me about pricing on their units, so I've written that off.  I like the Chauvet Colorado Solo fixtures, but I'm not confident the Solo 1 will do it and the Solo 2 is more of a 'COB Trio' beam than the Elation Fuze Z120 single COB look at a similar wattage.  Not sure how well that would work with barn doors or similar compared to a single source.

I have essentially narrowed the search to three (somewhat different) fixtures:

1) ETC Source Four Jr Zoom.  I know I'm back on that train again, but the control available over the beam and the quality of the optics impress me, I don't think they'll ever go "out of style", and right now there are some second hand ones online for $160 each CAD which is a smoking deal.  The used ones are white, but so are the horns on my DSL SM80's so it actually might look alright with my rig. 

The beam angle range (25-50 degrees) is ideal for my typically short-throw applications.  Power draw will be a concern, at 575w each, two per side, I'm looking at a dedicated 20A circuit, or a pair of 15A circuits (since 20A isn't always available around here unless I bring my distro).  I'd probably buy both 575w and 375w lamps for a little more flexibility.  When focused and aimed properly, they should be able to provide a very good quality of light for skin and in photos (which not all LED's can mimic) with the ability to control spillover onto projector screens, audience, etc.

I'd still need dimmers, which has taken me down a long and painful path trying to find that sweet spot between a big rack of dimmers/socapex, and the $99 DJ level ones that seem to be nearly disposable and have mixed reviews.  The Leprecon ULD series seem to be around my comfort level for budget/features/reported reliability.  I'd need one per t-bar to be practical, so that's two dimmer packs that would have room for future expansion but otherwise represent a pretty costly part of this venture.  The ETC ES750 dimmers look great, and I like the idea of one dimmer per fixture for positioning flexibility, but the pricing of that dimmer is not in my range.

Then there's the transportation and re-lamping, focusing and adjusting on a ladder, and finding a case that can fit them (maybe a pelican per pair?) without melting if they're still a little toasty at tear down.  And it goes without saying that they wouldn't have the colour mixing flexibility of an LED product, and I'm not sure how well they'd handle the occasional strobe duties.  Basically, they'd be a one-trick pony that can solidly perform that one trick.

2) Elation Fuse Z120IP.  I like the COB style lens, barn doors, IP65 rating, and RGBW colour mixing.  I've done a lot of hypothetical math based on the published photometric data and the brightness seems to be where I'd need it.  Size is manageable, price is within my budget, no other components needed to make this work.  Could all run on the same circuit as my rear LED's with room to spare. 

Motorized zoom means I can make them do a little more than a standard wash, especially when I'm in a venue with installed front wash since I could use them to enhance my rear-lighting.  Downside is no dedicated amber diode, and for the cost, I'm into option 3 territory. 

It's the only IP65 rated wash in my finalists, and I've said numerous times in this thread that IP65 is important to me as I usually operate solo, so a little rain wouldn't cause a panic for me to try to get them protected or I could set up the day before without worries of the morning dew causing issues.  Still have to point them manually, but they wouldn't be as hot as the S4's.

3) Chauvet Rogue R1 Wash Movers.  OK so now we're talking a pair of road cases, two fixtures per case.  We're talking movers so until I upgrade my control (Luminair) I may find some limitations.  However, their size/price/output are right in the range I'm looking for (about the same as the Z120) and I could literally throw them up and aim them off the board later which appeals on a "speed of deployment" level.  Not IP65, so I'd have to keep them protected from rain.  A little more maintenance potentially.  Still no amber diode (RGBW).  The appeal here would be all the extra things you can do with a mover (beyond just aiming once) that I feel would allow me to charge a little more for.  I don't know how feasible they'd be on a typical tripod/t-bar setup though, usually I see movers on truss or truss totems, I suspect because the torque could make the t-bar come loose on the stand? 

For control upgrades, these new offerings from Zero88 and the Chamsys QuickQ have really caught my attention.  Option 3 would likely require that upgrade to happen sooner rather than later. 

I've ruled out the SixPar fixtures based on tight beam angle (15deg).  I really considered the SixPar Z19 for a while but it's simply too large and pricey since I'd still need four.  I wish they made smaller versions that still had the zoom feature but with the 6-in-1 diodes.   

Blizzard seem to have a lot of 6-in-1 options (some of which have wireless DMX, IP65, and lithium-ion batteries - oh my!) but to me that sounds like a lot of things that could go wrong and the battery life seems better suited to up-lighting than an outdoor concert in the park where I'd likely be using them near full power.  The Tournado Sky W-DMX is the one that caught my attention, but they have around 10 6-in-1 fixtures in the realm of what I'm looking for, which is either a really good thing or a really bad thing.  Anyone out there with Blizzard quality stories they could share?  They feel a little more imported than the other fixtures I'm looking at (buy once, cry once after all).  Then again, I could buy a lot of Blizzard LB Par Hex fixtures for this budget, and treat them as nearly disposable.
 
I've been regularly checking back to the Elation site waiting on some beam angle numbers on the new SevenPar fixtures but still nothing.  If it's 25 degrees or more, I might have an option 4 to consider that gives me more colour options and the IP65 rating I was looking for, in a static wash, but it seems to be in the same price category as my options 2&3 above from what I've seen online (which is really only one source, so it may not be accurate).

If I've said anything that anyone has any direct experience on, I'd really appreciate it.  Thanks to everyone who's helped me on this journey so far.
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada

John Fruits

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2018, 08:16:08 pm »

Just to confuse you more, or perhaps guide you to a two stage expansion, Chauvet just introduced a new IP65 mover, in the Maverick series.  No word on price but the Maverick series is a step up from the Rogue series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cWXS6D-eHI
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."-Hunter S. Thompson

Jeremy Young

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2018, 10:03:38 pm »

That new maverick fixture speaks to me on several levels. I could have a lot of fun with those and some of the new strike p38 blinders. Thanks for the link John!  Iím sure I wonít like the pricing but you canít argue the versatility.

What are your thoughts on deploying movers without truss?
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada

John Fruits

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Re: Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2018, 10:21:56 pm »

I know that Victor of Squeek Lights frequently sends out ground packages using pipe and base.
https://www.facebook.com/SqueekLights
It is still a lot more hassle that lighting tripods but less of a hassle than truss and the beefier truss support options.
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."-Hunter S. Thompson
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