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[Mike Sokol]

A possible ultrasonic weapon targeting diplomats in Cuba?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/25/how-could-the-sonic-attack-on-us-diplomats-in-cuba-have-been-carried-out

The mysterious “sonic attack” on US diplomats based in Cuba raises questions about what form an acoustic weapon might have taken and the prevalence of such devices in the military.

The US State Department claims that the “attacks” started in autumn 2016 and ended in April this year and had affected at least 16 individuals. Officials said that the symptoms, including hearing loss, headaches and loss of balance, appeared to be the result of sophisticated devices operating outside the range of audible sound. No device nor any perpetrator has been discovered, however.

A sonic weapon operating outside the human hearing range implies one emitting either very low (infrasound) or high (ultrasound) frequencies. In the second world war, the German military considered deploying an infrasound device, called the Wirbelwind Kanone (Whirlwind Cannon), aimed at knocking enemy bombers out of the sky using a vortex of sound. Targeted at people, infrasound can resonate with the stomach cavity, causing people to suddenly feel anxious or nauseated.

However, low frequencies are difficult to target and the symptoms in the Cuban case do not appear consistent with infrasound attacks.

Robin Cleveland, a professor of engineering science at the University of Oxford, said: “What’s probably happening in the Cuba situation, is ultrasonic – higher frequencies above above 20 kHz.”

Tim Leighton, professor of ultrasonics and underwater acoustics at University of Southampton, agreed: “If you want to produce a tight beam of energy that you can point at someone, ultrasound is the one to go for.”

There is good evidence that hearing loss can result from longterm exposure to ultrasound, based on studies of people working in factories where ultrasound is used to weld plastic parts.

Cleveland said that building an ultrasound emitter would not be hard. “You can buy transducers on the internet that emit these frequencies,” he said. “Anybody with a bit of engineering background could put one together.”

A device the size of a kitchen matchbox could emit high enough amplitudes at close range to induce feelings of anxiety or difficulty concentrating.

However, putting together something powerful enough to affect hearing would be more challenging as it would require a large amplifier, may require a focused beam, and would need to be placed in the close vicinity of the target. High frequency sound does not travel well through barriers such as walls, curtains, or even human skin.

“If you want to put a lot of power into it so you could produce a beam that could go through windows, it starts to look more like a suitcase,” said Leighton. “In order to generate hearing loss at 50 metres away, you’d be looking at a car-sized device.”

Another ethical issue, specific to ultrasound weapons, is that they are difficult to target and tend to affect women and to a far greater degree children, more severely than middle-aged men.

US media reported this week that the medical records of some of the diplomats showed they had been diagnosed with mild traumatic brain injury. However, scientists were sceptical about the potential for an ultrasonic device to be capable of causing permanent brain damage.

“That’s a little harder for me to believe,” said Cleveland. “The sound would have to enter the brain tissue itself, but if you’ve ever had an ultrasound scan you’ll know they put gel on. If there’s even a tiny bit of air between the sound and your body it doesn’t get through.”

One possibility is that this diagnosis is a result of to the range of symptoms experienced, which might include migraines, tinnitus, loss of balance and problems concentrating. However, these effects would normally be temporary.

Leighton, who has studied the safety of ultrasound and measures to avoid its potential adverse effects on humans, said he would like to see more “prosaic possibilities” such as drugs or poison ruled out before being persuaded of the sonic weapon theory.

[Chris Hindle]

+1 for ultrasonic.
When I was a youngster, I was working for an alarm company.
When i was hired, they were in the process of "modernizing" existing systems, 1976 style.
One of the things we were replacing were ultrasonic area violation detectors.
1 "pot" sent out a signal, and up to 15 would receive. Something larger than a small dog moving anywhere in "the field" would cause "sound ripples" that would trigger the receivers.
Specs said they ran at 18K
I could hear them, faintly.
My sister, at 12 years old, couldn't even go into a store that had them. Uneasy feeling, sick to the stomach feeling as soon a she opened the door. Massive headache after 2 minutes. Mom mentioned it to me, and I asked "Which stores?" Sure enough, i had a look, and every store she complained about had one of the old ultrasonic in use. Either "ours", or a competitors.

These were replaced with units that were singles. Each was a transmitter/receiver. To use multiples, each was on a different frequency. Spread between 35K and 50K.
They eliminated my sister's problem, and likely, a lot of other folks.

Picture an LRAD, but really, really small. That'll do it.

I have little doubt that a mildly powerful device, used over many months, will seriously fuck you up.
Chris.

[Keith Broughton]

"Another ethical issue, specific to ultrasound weapons, is that they are difficult to target"

Ethics and attack weapons strike me as an odd combination of words.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

"Another ethical issue, specific to ultrasound weapons, is that they are difficult to target"

Ethics and attack weapons strike me as an odd combination of words.

Perhaps the definition of a "loose canon".

[Bob Leonard]

This has been going on for years at many of our embassy's. Looks like the volume is starting to go up. Maybe we could mount a couple of line arrays or giant horns outside the embassy and plat the "Star spangled banner" at 130db for a few weeks. Or maybe go in the extreme other direction and broadcast audio from the "View", code name bay of pigs 2.

[John Roberts {JR}]

It is a leap to ASSume this is a weapon targeted to injure embassy staff, while I don't expect the Cuban regime to much care about consequential injuries.

Possibly a flawed listening technology from watching too many mission impossible movies.

JR

[Art Welter]

A possible ultrasonic weapon targeting diplomats in Cuba?

Leighton, who has studied the safety of ultrasound and measures to avoid its potential adverse effects on humans, said he would like to see more “prosaic possibilities” such as drugs or poison ruled out before being persuaded of the sonic weapon theory.

I agree with Leighton. Although I don't doubt very high SPL ultrasonic noise can cause hearing damage, brain damage from high frequencies seems quite a stretch.

There are many drugs that are known to affect hearing and can result in migraines, tinnitus, loss of balance, problems concentrating and even brain damage. That said, it is possible that a combination of ultrasonic noise and drugs could have a synergistic effect, making a drug "work better" than the same dose would have without the noise.

Art

P.S.
The first time I heard of this "Sonic Attack" story it brought back memories of the tinnitus I had for days after recording ultrasonic tones back in 2012.
Although the audible tones I was mixing were well below tinnitus inducing levels, only 60 dB or less, the 18 & 20kHz VHF tones were in the 100+ dB level. Even though they were totally inaudible to me, they still were loud enough to have done some damage..

If you would like to experience a migraine from ultrasound just read through the thread below ;^):

Examples of air non-linearity introduced by the mixing of two tones at 104 dB SPL are available in posts #179 #182 of:
What are benefits of adding HF driver 7khz up?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/210914-what-benefits-adding-hf-driver-7khz-up-18.html

[Art Welter]

Oops, double post.

[Art Welter]

Re: Sonic Attack
 1)Why dismiss infra-sonic? 
2)As a skull is a dense material surrounding less dense matter, at the appropriate frequency/skull-size/mass an standing wave can be induced within the same way a microwave transmitter works.  ...or am I missing something?
3) Please weigh in as I have been researching this for about 3 years.

1) Because no reports of surroundings shaking were reported.
2) Even assuming the building was shaking enough to cause the chairs to be vibrating, your skull is on the end of a very lossy transmission medium that only loosely couples it to your feet and butt. If that were not the case, every step you took would make your head spin ;^).
3) Not sure what you have been researching for about 3 years...

[Ray Aberle]

Re: Sonic Attack

Is your Real, Full Name accurate now? Are you known as J. McCarthy? Or is "J" short for something?

As noted in the Rules of Participation, as reiterated by Mr. Kerr, your Display Name does need to reflect your Real, Full Name.

Thanks!

-Ray

[Mike Sokol]

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac

Hey "J."

I'm not the moderator on this forum or I would have locked you out already. If you don't respond and correct your profile to include your real full name very soon (maybe tomorrow), you we be locked out. Sorry, but that's the rule.

[Ray Aberle]

(Thanks, Mike. I actually received a PM from another user asking me if "Ray" was my real name, or if it's really "Raymond," so I appreciate the support and backup from the moderator team, even if you're not able to lock posts in this subforum.)

[Mike Sokol]

(Thanks, Mike. I actually received a PM from another user asking me if "Ray" was my real name, or if it's really "Raymond," so I appreciate the support and backup from the moderator team, even if you're not able to lock posts in this subforum.)

In the interest of full disclosure "Mike" isn't my real name either. I'm actually John Micheal, which only cops and grade school nuns called me. As in "John, do you know how fast you were going"? Or "John, why is your assignment late"? Or the worst was from my mother "John Micheal, stop hitting your brother"? To this day when anyone calls me John I feel my sphincter tighten up. 

Please call me "Mike"....

[John Roberts {JR}]

I recently saw a newspaper piece where our state dept suggested it might be from a listening device, but no physical evidence of a device has been found.

JR

[Jonathan Johnson]

I recently saw a newspaper piece where our state dept suggested it might be from a listening device, but no physical evidence of a device has been found.

JR

Have they checked the Great Seal?

[Jonathan Johnson]

In the interest of full disclosure "Mike" isn't my real name either. I'm actually John Micheal, which only cops and grade school nuns called me. As in "John, do you know how fast you were going"? Or "John, why is your assignment late"? Or the worst was from my mother "John Micheal, stop hitting your brother"? To this day when anyone calls me John I feel my sphincter tighten up. 

Please call me "Mike"....

When they came up with the rules for "full real name" I believe what they meant is what the general public -- your friends, your coworkers, your business associates, the people you meet in person -- know you as.

So I guess I'm afoul of the spirit of the law, because I usually go by Jon. You can call me Jonathan on here if you want, it doesn't bother me either way. I'll answer to either. Just -- please -- don't call me Johnny. Or John (with an H). I might not answer.

[Jay Barracato]

When they came up with the rules for "full real name" I believe what they meant is what the general public -- your friends, your coworkers, your business associates, the people you meet in person -- know you as.

So I guess I'm afoul of the spirit of the law, because I usually go by Jon. You can call me Jonathan on here if you want, it doesn't bother me either way. I'll answer to either. Just -- please -- don't call me Johnny. Or John (with an H). I might not answer.

I figure use whatever name I can write a check to you for professional services.

Since I am not going to write a check to "dopesubman36", I feel no need to discuss things with someone identified as such.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[John L Nobile]

broadcast audio from the "View", code name bay of pigs 2.

Good one!

[Dennis Wiggins]

A possible ultrasonic weapon targeting diplomats in Cuba?

...

There is good evidence that hearing loss can result from longterm exposure to ultrasound, based on studies of people working in factories where ultrasound is used to weld plastic parts.
.
.
.

It may have been an inadvertent "collision of frequencies" (aka: IM distortion).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-these-computer-scientists-solve-the-cuban-sonic-attack

-Dennis

[Art Welter]

It may have been an inadvertent "collision of frequencies" (aka: IM distortion).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-these-computer-scientists-solve-the-cuban-sonic-attack

-Dennis

"The Daily Beast reached out to the authors of the companion JAMA report that described the symptoms the patients faced and the fact that they seemed to suffer neurological damage. The authors declined to comment."

Yes, beat frequencies can be audible, but they don't cause brain damage. Still not a "solve"..

[ProSoundWeb Community]