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Author Topic: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?  (Read 15221 times)

Dave Garoutte

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 12:37:24 PM »

For 'charity' events, I have found that bidding / billing the job at the full rate and donating back some /all of the proceeds does a couple of useful things.  It establishes the value of your work, and you get a tax deduction for an actual, not in-kind, donation.  Something like this could work for you.  The problem with billing at a discounted rate, is that becomes what the market will bear.
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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 12:43:09 PM »

For 'charity' events, I have found that bidding / billing the job at the full rate and donating back some /all of the proceeds does a couple of useful things.  It establishes the value of your work, and you get a tax deduction for an actual, not in-kind, donation.  Something like this could work for you.  The problem with billing at a discounted rate, is that becomes what the market will bear.

Yup.  Bill full rate, get paid, make a PERSONAL (not business) contribution to good causes.  This covers you for two things:

1.  Having the funds to hire a capable stand-in should you be incapacitated without reaching into your own pocket and...

2.  Being covered for requests/demands for extra gear/time not in the original agreement, said agreement on paper and co-signed.  No good-guy handshake "same as last year" stuff.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2017, 01:31:13 PM »

Brian, I would be interested to know whether you have always had that rates policy, or if you used to be "cheaper" like me, and actively lost the poorer clients when you started doing it more seriously and charging more, and how you and those clients both felt about that.

I'm not sure if 'always' would be an accurate term.  Way back when I was a kid in high school, I started in the business taking whatever I could get.  But once I realized that wasn't sustainable, I set my prices and stuck to it fairly well.  Nobody EVER comes to me because my price is the lowest, or even anywhere near that.  Yes, I lose out on a LOT of 'work' because of that.  However, the clients that do hire me know that without question, they are getting top notch service.

I do run several businesses.  Each are run in the same way.  I live in a fairly small town, so it's somewhat difficult to take the business to the next level where it would be profitable enough for me to live off of. Plus, I'd get bored, so I'd have to hire help. That would mean a 10 fold increase in the business size would be required, and I'm not ready to do that yet.
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Brian Jojade

Brian Jojade

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2017, 01:38:43 PM »

For 'charity' events, I have found that bidding / billing the job at the full rate and donating back some /all of the proceeds does a couple of useful things.  It establishes the value of your work, and you get a tax deduction for an actual, not in-kind, donation.  Something like this could work for you.  The problem with billing at a discounted rate, is that becomes what the market will bear.

I agree 100% on billing full rate, even to charities. This does many things.  First off, if you provide $1000 worth of service for free, they might say thank you.  They guy next in line that wrote a check for $1000 is put on a pedestal, given a crown and paraded through the streets.  It's very interesting.  Cutting a donation check as yourself gets you that treatment.

When you are charging for your services, even if you don't donate them, you are treated much better than the guy that shows up to donate services.  It's weird, but that's the case.

The tax benefits are essentially a wash.  If you donate back the amount that you earned, and itemize deductions, then you end up right back at the same place as if you didn't charge at all. However, if the organization you are donating to is not a proper non profit, it could come back to bite you, so use caution.

Using the donation back method is a way to get your foot in the door, especially if the donation does NOT come directly from your production business.  I have gotten many jobs by sponsoring part of production with one of my other businesses that have advertising budgets.  Once you have your foot in the door for production work, you can decide in the following years if you want to continue sponsoring the event.  This is easier when the sponsorship is from a different company, as that different company can choose to not sponsor in following years.  Then the organizers just need to find new sponsors! 
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2017, 03:29:32 PM »

Aaaanddd this is going in my "Business Minded Questions" Thread :)

Good thread/post/questions.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind knowing what everyone quoted its just nice to know you're not being dumb. Most of my live sound pricing structure is based off of Ray's posts in my thread and any competition I have in the area. My install quotes are based off of Caleb Dueck's private help and competition in my area.

Sorry I'm off topic, but just wanted to give some context :)
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Simon Eves

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2017, 07:33:29 PM »

Honestly, I wouldn't mind knowing what everyone quoted its just nice to know you're not being dumb.

Editing again to just give ranges:

Gear $4200 to $19100
Labor $2500 to $4400

I suspect that the low end of this was from somebody who misunderstood the schedule and didn't quote for enough days.

I have also not included the guy who said that five years ago with lesser gear he would have done it for $4000 total gear and labor.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:48:16 PM by Simon Eves »
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2017, 07:58:16 PM »

Based on what your original requests are, the prices are not unreasonable.

You need 18 wireless mics for 5 weeks.  Doing a quick online search, the CHEAPEST I found for rentals is $65/wk per mic.  At that rate, you're looking $5850 just to rent mics for the month.  Better quality mics with RF distribution would cost significantly more.  That's the biggest line item on the rental  With the rest of the gear needed, assuming the PA is adequate, I'd think a total gear rental budget of $7.5K is a reasonable starting point for quality gear, with the cost going up if you want to get beyond entry level mics and X32 level mixing.

The labor quotes seem on the low end to me.  For production labor, you're asking for 18 days of labor.  Assuming that setup and rehearsal days are 8 hour days, and show days are 4 hour days, you are looking at 92 hours of labor.  At $50/hr billed labor, that comes to $4600.

Looking at your quotes, they are fairly reasonable. the 2 low end ones would concern me about the possible quality one would be getting.
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Brian Jojade

Simon Eves

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2017, 08:00:17 PM »

The 2 low end ones would concern me about the possible quality one would be getting.

The last one, self-confessed not very high.
The second one might be wrong, as I think he might have mis-understood the schedule I described and not quoted for enough days.
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John Fruits

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2017, 08:02:27 PM »

So it boils down to the new director requires 18 channels of wireless, and you only have 12 channels.  Then you get chewed out for not being able to make it happen to fulfill their "artistic vision"
This ain't Broadway, it's community theater and I would hope they consider you part of that community. 
I don't know who chewed you out, or what authority they have, but many people would have already said bubye, see you around, good luck with your show.  I am also being even snarkier here, do you know what an enabler is?
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Simon Eves

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Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 01:15:05 PM »

Aaaanddd this is going in my "Business Minded Questions" Thread :)

On December 8th, 2016, in that thread, Nathan wrote:

"Part of the problem is me and my partner were a big enabler of them these past few years running their events at cost with gear we purchased with our own money for fun. Now we're adults working in the real world and it isn't exactly easy to say, 'hey I know I was doing this for basically free'...but now I gotta charge real rates."

Ex-frickin'-actly!

Yes, John, we are being enablers. We want to stop. I'm just trying to work out how without bringing everything down.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Am I allowed to ask for job quotes on here?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 01:15:05 PM »


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