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[David Allred]

You have a budget of $1500 for speakers.  You PREFER passive, which to me says you don't currently have amps, though didn't say specifically.  You can buy a pair of decent 12+1 tops and  single sub for that (near), but not amplification.  You also suggested that you want to bi-amp the tops.  That is a job for someone with a really good ear and /or proper measuring tools and know how.  Buying because of nostalgia should only be done by those that can afford to do so.

What is it?  Cheap, Loud, Sounds good?  Pick 2?

[David Winners]

Thanks David - I appreciate your recommendations.

I'll re-aim my search to active speakers, in the two categories you have outlined. The IQ's represent really good value for money, I need to audition them soon.

Before then, if anyone has an opinion on how the more recent products like the Turbosound IQ, Yamaha DSR/DXR's compare to some of the older active monitors that I know very well - the Mackie SRM 350 and 450's version 2, please share?

I will most likely acquire a Behringer digital mixer so the IQ's would, as you have rightly pointed out, have some integration benefits.

The Yamaha sounds better and gets louder than everything else in this price range IMO. I was set to get a pair when an EV QRx rig fell into my lap.

The iQ series sound much better and get louder than the Mackie offerings.

[Will Knight]

The Yamaha DXR15 goes low and has a solid low end presence for a 15".  You can get a pair for within your targeted budget and use that until you're able to get a sub.  A search on this forum will  find a lot of favorable reviews of the DXR and it's bigger sibling the DSR series...
 

[Steve Ferreira]

My suggestion for a very budget minded rig is a pair of Turbosound iQ10 over iQ15b subs. You wouldn't have to stretch the budget much if you shop wisely. If / when you move to a digital board, they are in the Behringer ultranet universe.

I use iQ10 for wedges, on sticks for acoustic stuff, and FOH over a sub for small venues. They sound better than anything else in this price range IMO.

They are plastic boxes, but you're not going to find birch cabinets in your price range new.

Up your budget a bit and you can get into DSR112, which is a forum favorite, best bang for your buck top box that punches way above its price. It is a wood box. A forum search will provide opinions from people with far more experience than myself.

Good luck

If you could stretch the budget a bit more also look into the TurboSound Sienna series.

[Chris Grimshaw]

Thanks Chris, so kind of you to respond. I'm in Berkshire, near Reading.

Bit of a drive between us! Let me know if you're ever this far north and we'll go for a drink.

I completely agree that good drivers are important. Extremely important.
However, DSP is non-trivial. DSP means the difference between the drivers working well and working badly, and when you're pushing it, the difference between the cabinet surviving the gig or not.
A good driver working badly (eg, compression driver running too low, midbass driver with peaks towards the top of its range, etc etc) sounds worse than an okay driver working well.

Given that, unless you have a good measurement mic and the skills to wield it, I'd stick with active speakers, as I note you've mentioned on your first post.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of recommendations for which active speakers to go for. The Yamaha DXR and DSR ranges get a lot of love around here. I'll finally hear some DXR12s this weekend, albeit running with subs.
DXR15s are reputed to have enough low end for most stuff, so a pair of those would probably be a good starting point for you, and you can look at expanding into subwoofers later on.

Chris

[Lance Hallmark]

Buy a pair of Yamaha DSR112s and rent subs until you can afford them. EV, QSC, & RCF all have good subs (and tops) at various price levels. I'd recommend listening to all 4 of those brands and find models that you like at a price point that works for you. If you are buying new, you are going to have to spend $3k eventually to get decent sound for the gigs you outlined.

[Callan Browne]

Hey Olakunle, you mentioned also getting a mixer, does that mean you have only minimal gear now?

Only a few years ago, I started with a pair of cheap tops and simple mixer.
On my first show, I realised how much I still needed (obvious in hindsight).
Mics, stands, foldback, subs, cables, more cables.. Di's, more mic's, more cables, lights, cases, transport.
This stuff adds up very quickly.

I'm possibly 10 time over my original budget by now, but I've got a great little system. I still need to borrow stuff from time to time, but that's ok, I've got a good core system that serves me well.

I only say this to make sure you're going into this speaker purchase with your eyes open.
Your 1200£ will get you started, but you'll need a lot more when providing for bands.

Something like a pair of dsr112's should serve as a good base to build your system around, + rented subs

I've done heaps of gigs with 2 12" speakers (srx812). 1 for foldback, the other for the audience/foh. It can work depending on venue and the act.

Good luck

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[olakunle odebode]

Bit of a drive between us! Let me know if you're ever this far north and we'll go for a drink.

I completely agree that good drivers are important. Extremely important.
However, DSP is non-trivial. DSP means the difference between the drivers working well and working badly, and when you're pushing it, the difference between the cabinet surviving the gig or not.
A good driver working badly (eg, compression driver running too low, midbass driver with peaks towards the top of its range, etc etc) sounds worse than an okay driver working well.

Given that, unless you have a good measurement mic and the skills to wield it, I'd stick with active speakers, as I note you've mentioned on your first post.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of recommendations for which active speakers to go for. The Yamaha DXR and DSR ranges get a lot of love around here. I'll finally hear some DXR12s this weekend, albeit running with subs.
DXR15s are reputed to have enough low end for most stuff, so a pair of those would probably be a good starting point for you, and you can look at expanding into subwoofers later on.

Chris

Hi Chris.

Definitely - I'll let you know whenever I'm in your neck of the woods.

Thanks also to all who have kindly responded. The value of contributions on this forum is immense.

The consensus here has been unanimous, in my price point, especially bearing portability in mind, my best bet would be active.

While an extensive research, of all the components, "may" bring me to a passive solution somewhat close to the same price point as the active equivalent, I deduce that the passive option would :

1. Be challenged by lower quality components, and less effective crossovers.

2. It would also be my headache to replicate the salient features that manufacturers of active speakers have become quite good at, but on my own I'd be attempting to to add these features using multiple devices - some done in the mixer, or an affordable digital processor - like the Behringer dcx2496.

3. Statistically, the cumulative failure rate, and opportunity for failure would be higher, in a passive option.

4. Passive speakers cabinets of a suitable quality, within my price points would be heavier and not as portable, yet from what I have checked, I'd still be missing the bi-amping that comes standard with active monitors. The cheaper passive PA speakers do not natively support bi-amping.

5. An example - a few years ago(in 2011), I recommended a Behringer active solution, a pair 10 inch woofers - Eurolive B210D(and other components - mixer, microphones, stands, etc.) for someone who held speaking events, fortnightly or monthly - and he still owns and uses them, I mixed most of the initial events - which required amplifying only vocals and keyboards. Purely out of nostalgia, I was looking at the brochure of this speaker today, and was shocked to realise that in addition to limiting, dynamic equalisation was a salient feature of this speaker - which I was never aware of, at the time. My point is - while it is possible to cobble these features into a passive config, via external processors, within my budget, best I leave this to the active speaker manufacturer to sort out.

Speaking of which, I absolutely love something about the DSR tops, which allows you to switch off the dynamic EQ, with a simple button press. Ingenious. This way if I'm already applying such features via my mixer, I do not end up with 2 dynamic EQ processors in the chain, contending with each other, especially where I have no clue what the dynamic EQ in the active monitor is doing to the audio, if engaged.

I'm pretty certain I'll be using a Behringer digital mixer(X32 or XR18) which has realtime RTA, and I already have a Dayton Audio EMM-6 measurement microphone, to improve whatever system tuning I do , 1st by ear, with graphic EQ's on the mixer, on each output to a speaker - FOH and monitors.

I am definitely attracted to the Yamaha (DXR or DSR) series, from the positive comments of many who use these industriously, and also cos of their iron clad 7 year warranty. Tremendous confidence in their own product. A quick check on the usual suspects, ebay.co.uk and reverb.com, yield almost no secondhand items for sale!...

Thanks all. It might take a while to go ahead with this, but I'll drop a note whenever I move forward with a decision.

[olakunle odebode]

Hey Olakunle, you mentioned also getting a mixer, does that mean you have only minimal gear now?

Only a few years ago, I started with a pair of cheap tops and simple mixer.
On my first show, I realised how much I still needed (obvious in hindsight).
Mics, stands, foldback, subs, cables, more cables.. Di's, more mic's, more cables, lights, cases, transport.
This stuff adds up very quickly.

I'm possibly 10 time over my original budget by now, but I've got a great little system. I still need to borrow stuff from time to time, but that's ok, I've got a good core system that serves me well.

I only say this to make sure you're going into this speaker purchase with your eyes open.
Your 1200£ will get you started, but you'll need a lot more when providing for bands.

Something like a pair of dsr112's should serve as a good base to build your system around, + rented subs

I've done heaps of gigs with 2 12" speakers (srx812). 1 for foldback, the other for the audience/foh. It can work depending on venue and the act.

Good luck

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Thanks, good call, for sure there are other items - stands, cables, etc, which are outside the stated budget for the FOH speakers.

My current thinking is that I will need to scale things back - since 2 really good FOH speakers, which I am unlikely to replace for a very long time, will not fit into my max budget for this item.

So the current plan is to scale all the way back, to something I can easily repurpose to monitor duties, or small gigs, like a pair of Alto TS212's or something decent looking/sounding, at about the same price point, to start off with.

   

[Steve Garris]

Speaking of which, I absolutely love something about the DSR tops, which allows you to switch off the dynamic EQ, with a simple button press. Ingenious. This way if I'm already applying such features via my mixer, I do not end up with 2 dynamic EQ processors in the chain, contending with each other, especially where I have no clue what the dynamic EQ in the active monitor is doing to the audio, if engaged.

Just a point to make here, the D-Contour is a compressor feature that is meant for recorded music. It reduces low frequencies as the volume gets higher, and vice versa. I consider this a feature not to be used in a live music setting. Having said that, I love the simple back panel & features that these boxes have. I use the high-pass filter frequently as my DSR's are specifically for monitor duty. YMMV

[ProSoundWeb Community]