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[Debbie Dunkley]

It sounds like you've had experience working with CRAPPY sound companies.  Yes, there are a lot of those out there.  The problems you described would not be what a good company would offer.

I agree. My work ethic is always the same regardless of level of service. I turn up ahead of any of the band members and I am usually finished with most of the component set up and connect by the time even the drummer arrives!! I leave the lights till the end but usually even have them finished too.

I line check as each band member is available and sit and wait for them to be ready for sound check.

[Jay Marr]

I agree. My work ethic is always the same regardless of level of service. I turn up ahead of any of the band members and I am usually finished with most of the component set up and connect by the time even the drummer arrives!! I leave the lights till the end but usually even have them finished too.

I line check as each band member is available and sit and wait for them to be ready for sound check.

I have had some good experiences, don't get me wrong.  But I'd say I it's 60% clown, 40% competent, where I live.
And the inconsistency has driven 90% of the bands to run their own sound.

Debbie, if you move to Boston, let me know. 

[Debbie Dunkley]

I have had some good experiences, don't get me wrong.  But I'd say I it's 60% clown, 40% competent, where I live.
And the inconsistency has driven 90% of the bands to run their own sound.

Debbie, if you move to Boston, let me know. 

ha ha - will do!!

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I have had some good experiences, don't get me wrong.  But I'd say I it's 60% clown, 40% competent, where I live.
And the inconsistency has driven 90% of the bands to run their own sound.

Debbie, if you move to Boston, let me know. 

If the job actually paid what it's worth there would be fewer problems relating to competence...I think...

[Debbie Dunkley]

If the job actually paid what it's worth there would be fewer problems relating to competence...I think...

I agree 100% Dick - this is a labor of love for me so I am probably more generous with my time, equipment and abilities than most. If I was doing this for a living, a lot of things would have to change - other than my integrity of course.

[Scott Bolt]

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/pa-system-what-to-buy.1855952/

I wonder why anyone even bothers to use sound people because it seems we are all redundant. A speaker per side and maybe one sub and we are easily replaced. 

Live sound has gotten easier to get right (at least for me) with respect to FOH speakers anyway.  I spent tons of time with my old passive system tweaking my Driverack PA, the graphical EQ, etc, etc to get a good FOH sound.  Setting up wasn't exactly an easy time either with a 3-way cross-over, grossly heavy 12ga speaker cables running to the speakers, an amp rack so heavy that it required 2 grown men to carry it, and a mixer rack with efx that was nearly as large as one of the folded horn subs.

Now day's you just need to listen to a few good people on a good setup of powered speakers and it is hard not to have a pretty good sounding DJ rig at least.

Live sound for bands .... not as much.

I will re-iterate what others have said.  Frequently, I have had sound people run the mix that get a poor mix for our band.  I know this by a combination of what I hear in the IEM's (when selecting just the L/R out mix), and what people in the audience tell me.  It is a crap shoot IME.  About 40% get a great mix, the other 60% .... not so much.

Mixing from stage with IEM's I can get a decent mix .... at least with my band since even the drums are DI (vDrums) so there is no stage volume at all.  This is not to say that what I hear in the IEM's is what is coming out the FOH.  This is to say that when I mix the FOH from out front using a multi-track playback, I train myself to hear that mix of IEM input as "that is what sounded good out front".

I can honestly say that it is never as good a mix as I can get standing out front doing it in real time.  Getting a good base line on the mix with a virtual sound check gets you in the ball park, but as the night goes on, a decent sound person would easily get a better mix...... but a bad sound person would not do as good .... sometimes not even close.

For larger events (festivals, larger bar venues) we almost always have someone mixing out front.  For the run-of-the-mill bar gig ... mixed from stage.

If you ever move to Michigan Debbie, let me know.  I'd love to have a great sound person out front

[Brian_Henry]

...a decent sound person would easily get a better mix...... but a bad sound person would not do as good .... sometimes not even close.

Yes and I think this goes back to the very large standard deviation of what constitutes a sound man these days. I know plenty of people who think they are live mix engineers. The majority do not possess a trained ear and do not know how to mix beyond pushing faders about. Many are further hampered by poor deployment and shaky gain staging.



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[Rusty Stevens]

Not to side track too much, but your comment on throwing in a couple of extra lights made me smile. I work at a bar that historically has had terrible house sound. I will often show up to see shows there even when I'm not booked and if the band is good will turn the lights that I have there on for them (sound active of course). I've also been known to pull a couple of LED pars out to light an acoustic act in the "lounge" area just because. It's funny the number of request for my sound and lighting that come in because someone who was in one of those acts, or at the venue to see those acts is in a bigger band that can afford it, and they actually remember my act of kindness.
The best was when a "do our own sound" band showed up for load in and asked to take a pay cut if the bar could get me to do the sound that night. (Oh wait, you work here too? Your equipment is all set up already? Is there any chance you are available tonight?)

Several decades ago (the 80s), I would typically get a call like this.

"Hey-we are getting paid $XX for a gig at so and so.  How much PA and lights can we get for that?"

Yes I would take everything they were making (and it was often less than what I should have been getting paid), but I would throw in some extra lights to make them look better, knowing they were not making anything.

It all comes down to what is important for the band.

Some were more interested in making an impression (in hopes of getting mroe work), and others just wanted a few dollars.  The guy wanting to get the most "take home", were the ones with the worst sound and maybe 2 lights.

Sometimes the audience cares, other times they do not.

As usual-it depends

[Debbie Dunkley]

Live sound has gotten easier to get right (at least for me) with respect to FOH speakers anyway.  I spent tons of time with my old passive system tweaking my Driverack PA, the graphical EQ, etc, etc to get a good FOH sound.  Setting up wasn't exactly an easy time either with a 3-way cross-over, grossly heavy 12ga speaker cables running to the speakers, an amp rack so heavy that it required 2 grown men to carry it, and a mixer rack with efx that was nearly as large as one of the folded horn subs.

Now day's you just need to listen to a few good people on a good setup of powered speakers and it is hard not to have a pretty good sounding DJ rig at least.

Live sound for bands .... not as much.

I will re-iterate what others have said.  Frequently, I have had sound people run the mix that get a poor mix for our band.  I know this by a combination of what I hear in the IEM's (when selecting just the L/R out mix), and what people in the audience tell me.  It is a crap shoot IME.  About 40% get a great mix, the other 60% .... not so much.

Mixing from stage with IEM's I can get a decent mix .... at least with my band since even the drums are DI (vDrums) so there is no stage volume at all.  This is not to say that what I hear in the IEM's is what is coming out the FOH.  This is to say that when I mix the FOH from out front using a multi-track playback, I train myself to hear that mix of IEM input as "that is what sounded good out front".

I can honestly say that it is never as good a mix as I can get standing out front doing it in real time.  Getting a good base line on the mix with a virtual sound check gets you in the ball park, but as the night goes on, a decent sound person would easily get a better mix...... but a bad sound person would not do as good .... sometimes not even close.

For larger events (festivals, larger bar venues) we almost always have someone mixing out front.  For the run-of-the-mill bar gig ... mixed from stage.

If you ever move to Michigan Debbie, let me know.  I'd love to have a great sound person out front

Thanks Scott - I'm really not trying to blow my own trumpet here - I hope I haven't given that impression. I just wanted to point out my full commitment to 'getting it right every time'. I just hope I get close.

[John J.R. Bogle]

On the topic of mixing one's own sound (a side topic of the OT): Musicianship comes into play very much. I'm a professional audio person and a semi-pro musician. There are many things that make for a "good" musician. The basics are intonation, tonal quality & rhythmic sense but let's not forget the all important dynamics. A band with good internal dynamics will always self mix well. From the audio engineers perspective (both monitors and FOH), these are the easiest gigs in that, once you get the room tone & balance right, it's basically set & forget. The same is true if a band is self mixing.

It's always far better if the artists are actually LISTENING to each other and trying to blend. It think it's called "talent". OTOH I have mixed bands that had all of the other ingredients right but still had to be "ridden" all night long. As long as what they do is predictable, you can make it sound good BUT unless you're really familiar with their material, the chances for a mixing mistake go up.

Long story short. If musicians can't afford a sound person then they need to concentrate on their internal dynamics & tone (mic technique, patch normalization, etc.....).
Just my .02

[ProSoundWeb Community]