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[Stephen Kirby]

I think that if you treat it like a stereo system in a smaller space, playing prerecorded music, the DXRs are going to come out shining.  Especially if the archetype JBL "forward" sound offends you.  The difference comes in when you try to get the vocals of a loud band up over things and keep some clarity of multiple instruments also coming though the same speakers.  As far as "polite" speakers go, the DXRs will do a better job than most, but not at the same level as higher end stuff.  I also don't like the burn holes in your ears sound, but I tried some DSRs in-spite of some folks opinion that they are bright and find that I'm getting work because people say they can finally hear the words.  And I'm not burning holes in my or anyone else's ears.

[Peter Morris]

Pure sound quality? No other constraints (aside from 5k budget). Here's my take.

MI:
JBL SRX835p
Martin CDD12 LIVE

Professional:
JTR Noesis 3TX
Danley SH50
Peter's DIY 60 (I think)

Thanks Nathan for including my box on the list 

I think at the moment there is a little bit of a revolution happening with speakers.  People are designing products that sound better than ever, they go loud and don’t sound harsh, have excellent frequency and phase response combined with very good polar responses. This translates into excellent sound quality and clarity, and a speaker that works well for every type of music.

Technology has provided some excellent design tools to model and test speakers and the ability to combine electronics in to a cost effective package like never before. 

Have a look at some of the examples and papers below – they all use FIR processing, have a flat smooth frequency response and a flat phase response over the critical vocal region.

When Lake released their Contour processor many years ago it cost something like $6000 for a 3 way stereo FIR based crossover … now, and not taking inflation into account you can buy a pair of very good powered speakers with FIR processing for less than that.

I think any of the speakers below will sound great, it just a case of determining what you need it to do, how loud you need to go and how much you are prepared to spend to get that little bit extra sound quality.

Yamaha
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/speakers/dsr_series/features.jsp

RCF
http://www.rcf.it/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=218743&folderId=12925&name=DLFE-35706.pdf
http://www.rcf.it/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=16359553&folderId=22490&name=DLFE-29707.pdf

Fulcrum
http://www.fulcrum-acoustic.com/assets/pdf/Spec%20Sheets/Prod%20Spec,%20FA22ac%20v3.pdf

Martin CDD Live
https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/CDDLIVE12datasheet.pdf

EAW
http://eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Loudspeakers/KF/KF394NT/KF394nt_SPECS_revA.pdf
http://eaw.com/docs/1_Current_Products/KF/Spec_Sheets/KF394_SPECS_revA.pdf

PM90/60
https://soundforums.net/forum/low-earth-orbit/diy-audio/11601-new-diy-mid-high
https://soundforums.net/filedata/fetch?id=154239

[Scott Gentry]

Yes, the RCF TTs are the answer.  Again.  Twice in a few days. 

Unless you can afford d&b audiotechnik.

The TTs just sound nicer than the other boxes that look about the same, whilst still being able to go loud and not fall to pieces.  However, they also cost (significantly) more than many boxes that look about he same.  They Yammies are so much better than their price would suggest that the "next step up" can be difficult.  It's easy (as in there are several reasonable options) to get louder and/or more coverage, but "better"?  That's a judgement quality.

If you find the aforementioned JBLs too brash and shouty than I'd venture you're not likely to like the Meyer UPAs either, despite them being in an altogether different expenditure class.

Thank you for the response, very much appreciated. I have been looking at the TT's, hoping I can find a place to hear them soon. Yes, definitely stretching my budget even at the price I can likely get them for. But, if it's what my ears are looking for then I will find a way to get them.

[Tim McCulloch]

Thank you for the response, very much appreciated. I have been looking at the TT's, hoping I can find a place to hear them soon. Yes, definitely stretching my budget even at the price I can likely get them for. But, if it's what my ears are looking for then I will find a way to get them.

The reason Meyer gets a Big Thumbs Up is because they are tabula rasa and can be voiced to suit your preferences.  Out of the box they're very meh.  The much loved brands and models, from Adamson to Yamaha, are loved because their factory voicing agrees with their respective user's taste.

Your concept of sound quality seems determined by whether or not the voicing is pleasing to you.  No harm in that, it's what sets apart the various brands and model lines, but have you considered applying your own voicing EQ?

[Scott Gentry]

[quote author=Tim McCulloch link=topic=164432.msg1515111#msg1515111 date=1502250683

Your concept of sound quality seems determined by whether or not the voicing is pleasing to you.  No harm in that, it's what sets apart the various brands and model lines, but have you considered applying your own voicing EQ?
[/quote]

Tim, I just came in from about 2 hours spent with the SRX 835's and the Driverack VENU360. I reset everything from front to back, mains crossed at 100hz, same as subs, ran the eq wizard for flat response, left everything else off on the driverack, and then trailered the eq settings some. I also adjusted a more aggressive crossover slope on both the mains and subs. I will eat crow now, because for the first time I walked out impressed with the sound quality of the 835. I didn't use SRX connect or audio architect, just the VENU360. I'm still having level/ gain issues as the mixer is peaking much faster than the input section of the driverack, but that's probably a different post. Long story short, yes, I did tonight, learned a few lessons along the way, and have been somewhat humbled. If I can get the gain structure issues resolved, and the output where it should be I might have a keeper in the 835's.

[Scott Holtzman]

[quote author=Tim McCulloch link=topic=164432.msg1515111#msg1515111 date=1502250683

Your concept of sound quality seems determined by whether or not the voicing is pleasing to you.  No harm in that, it's what sets apart the various brands and model lines, but have you considered applying your own voicing EQ?


Tim, I just came in from about 2 hours spent with the SRX 835's and the Driverack VENU360. I reset everything from front to back, mains crossed at 100hz, same as subs, ran the eq wizard for flat response, left everything else off on the driverack, and then trailered the eq settings some. I also adjusted a more aggressive crossover slope on both the mains and subs. I will eat crow now, because for the first time I walked out impressed with the sound quality of the 835. I didn't use SRX connect or audio architect, just the VENU360. I'm still having level/ gain issues as the mixer is peaking much faster than the input section of the driverack, but that's probably a different post. Long story short, yes, I did tonight, learned a few lessons along the way, and have been somewhat humbled. If I can get the gain structure issues resolved, and the output where it should be I might have a keeper in the 835's.

This is getting silly.  What is your aversion to getting into the speaker settings?  You have to take that Venue 360 out of the chain.  Do you think we are all making it up when we tell you the built in processor is vastly more powerful and better suited for the speaker.  Plus it has V5 tunings.

From JBL
Crown Front-End DriveCore Technology, premium JBL user-configurable DSP, V5 Tunings compatible with Vertec and VTX touring systems

What is V5

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/tour-sound/vertec-series/v5-system-integration#.WYqnoYgrIuU

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

[quote author=Tim McCulloch link=topic=164432.msg1515111#msg1515111 date=1502250683

Your concept of sound quality seems determined by whether or not the voicing is pleasing to you.  No harm in that, it's what sets apart the various brands and model lines, but have you considered applying your own voicing EQ?


Tim, I just came in from about 2 hours spent with the SRX 835's and the Driverack VENU360. I reset everything from front to back, mains crossed at 100hz, same as subs, ran the eq wizard for flat response, left everything else off on the driverack, and then trailered the eq settings some. I also adjusted a more aggressive crossover slope on both the mains and subs. I will eat crow now, because for the first time I walked out impressed with the sound quality of the 835. I didn't use SRX connect or audio architect, just the VENU360. I'm still having level/ gain issues as the mixer is peaking much faster than the input section of the driverack, but that's probably a different post. Long story short, yes, I did tonight, learned a few lessons along the way, and have been somewhat humbled. If I can get the gain structure issues resolved, and the output where it should be I might have a keeper in the 835's.

Scott, I'm glad you're making progress with the SRX835s.  A couple thoughts - beware of the "auto-EQ" wizard.  These usually leave you worse off than without.  I am apparently in the minority suggesting the Venu360 has some value (variable crossover control, adding gain for the SRX, EQ for your subs, and a convenient place to adjust your whole system in one place), however I would be careful about overdoing it.

The V5 settings Scott H refers to are undefeatable, which is a good thing as this does 95% of the heavy lifting related to speaker tuning, driver protection, time alignment, etc.  You get/have to have them regardless of whatever else you do.  I have not personally used a Venu360, but I doubt it will degrade the sound quality intrinsically; however poor application of the Venu360 (EQ/crossover settings) will definitely degrade the sound quality of your system.

A shorter path to success may include posting your location and investing a few bucks into hiring someone for a couple hours to get you started with tuning and setting up gain structure of your system.

By the way, you said "I'm still having level/ gain issues as the mixer is peaking much faster than the input section of the Driverack".  This indicates a problem with the input gain stage of your Driverack, and not the SRX speakers.  You need to turn your Driverack up.

[Scott Gentry]

Scott, I'm glad you're making progress with the SRX835s.  A couple thoughts - beware of the "auto-EQ" wizard.  These usually leave you worse off than without.  I am apparently in the minority suggesting the Venu360 has some value (variable crossover control, adding gain for the SRX, EQ for your subs, and a convenient place to adjust your whole system in one place), however I would be careful about overdoing it.

By the way, you said "I'm still having level/ gain issues as the mixer is peaking much faster than the input section of the Driverack".  This indicates a problem with the input gain stage of your Driverack, and not the SRX speakers.  You need to turn your Driverack up.

I concur that there's value in the driverack, whether redundant for the SRX or not, they aren't the only piece of gear in the setup, and as mentioned, neither the SRX connect or the audio architect tools will do any processing for the current subs I have.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the purpose of auto eq was to measure the speakers output and interaction with the room / environment that they are in, and make adjustments accordingly. Is that correct? I used the flat eq setting for that, and the results showed a few measurable bumps, up to +6 db around 4500 hz and a few other areas that were out of balance.

When raising the master faders on the mixer to where output indicator lights start bumping 0db on the mixer, I'm only barely bumping -10 on the driverack input meters. This is after going in to the input channel gains of the driverack and bumping them to the max, which is +6, it was worse before doing that. The owners manual for the venue360 shows an input / output sensitivity settings section, and the driverack is at the default settings of +24 input/ +12 output. I believe this is where the adjustments need to be made to get the mixer output and driverack input more aligned. If I understand things correctly, the driverack input meters should be getting close to 0 when the mixer is hitting 0 db output, correct?

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the purpose of auto eq was to measure the speakers output and interaction with the room / environment that they are in, and make adjustments accordingly. Is that correct? I used the flat eq setting for that, and the results showed a few measurable bumps, up to +6 db around 4500 hz and a few other areas that were out of balance.

In theory, yes, but measurement is not trivial.  What mic did you use for this purpose?  If your mic isn't flat (you need a dedicated measurement mic), your results will be very poor.  Even with the right mic, the room interacts strongly with the sound, creating areas where some frequencies add and others subtract.  Changing your position even a small distance will in some cases radically alter the sound.  Measurement that's worth something requires some experience to know what's real and what isn't, and multiple measurements to understand the larger picture, rather than at just one mic location.

The Auto-EQ wizards have improved slightly in recent years, but they're still largely a gimmick, and frequently give poor results.  The SRX speakers are pretty flat from the factory; the fact that the wizard suggests a 6dB bump at 4500Hz indicates trouble.  There's no way your speaker needs that.  If you're not using a real measurement microphone, that could account for this big bump.

Try this experiment - take a phone picture of the graph of your current auto-EQ results.  Move your mic 12" in some direction and run the wizard again.  Compare to the picture you took earlier. I will bet you they look significantly different.

When raising the master faders on the mixer to where output indicator lights start bumping 0db on the mixer, I'm only barely bumping -10 on the driverack input meters. This is after going in to the input channel gains of the driverack and bumping them to the max, which is +6, it was worse before doing that. The owners manual for the venue360 shows an input / output sensitivity settings section, and the driverack is at the default settings of +24 input/ +12 output. I believe this is where the adjustments need to be made to get the mixer output and driverack input more aligned. If I understand things correctly, the driverack input meters should be getting close to 0 when the mixer is hitting 0 db output, correct?

More information is required to understand this further.  What mixer?  What jacks on the mixer? What are the other DR input/output sensitivity options?  If there's a +18dB input sensitivity setting that would help.  A +4dB setting would help more, but may move the problem the other way - the DR might clip before your mixer.

Don't get too hung up on meters.  Headroom is good, and it's better to clip at your mixer so you can see it than buried in your driverack.  If you can get enough gain from the output of the driverack, I would let it go.

[Scott Gentry]

In theory, yes, but measurement is not trivial.  What mic did you use for this purpose?  If your mic isn't flat (you need a dedicated measurement mic), your results will be very poor.  Even with the right mic, the room interacts strongly with the sound, creating areas where some frequencies add and others subtract.  Changing your position even a small distance will in some cases radically alter the sound.  Measurement that's worth something requires some experience to know what's real and what isn't, and multiple measurements to understand the larger picture, rather than at just one mic location.

The Auto-EQ wizards have improved slightly in recent years, but they're still largely a gimmick, and frequently give poor results.  The SRX speakers are pretty flat from the factory; the fact that the wizard suggests a 6dB bump at 4500Hz indicates trouble.  There's no way your speaker needs that.  If you're not using a real measurement microphone, that could account for this big bump.

Try this experiment - take a phone picture of the graph of your current auto-EQ results.  Move your mic 12" in some direction and run the wizard again.  Compare to the picture you took earlier. I will bet you they look significantly different.
More information is required to understand this further.  What mixer?  What jacks on the mixer? What are the other DR input/output sensitivity options?  If there's a +18dB input sensitivity setting that would help.  A +4dB setting would help more, but may move the problem the other way - the DR might clip before your mixer.

Don't get too hung up on meters.  Headroom is good, and it's better to clip at your mixer so you can see it than buried in your driverack.  If you can get enough gain from the output of the driverack, I would let it go.

I used the driverack rta mic, purchased it with the driverack, and did the 4 measuring points setup, meaning the driverack took 4 readings in 4 different locations in the room.

I took some rta readings using sine sweeps and had the peak limiters set to hold about a week ago. I just pulled the pictures back up and it shows a rather pronounced hump between 3500-5k hz, actually showed more than a 6db spike. Those measurements were taken before adding the driverack so it's not completely off for sure. My guess is the room has some reflections happening at those frequencies, but I'm not yet educated enough to say for sure.

The mixer is an analog Allen and Heath Mixwizard4 16:2 My feeling is that if I can get the driverack inputs matching the mixer output proportionally then I think I'll be where I want, or at least have confidence I can get there. The input and output meters on the driverack itself are pretty well matched, so I'm of the opinion the issue is with the input sensitivity settings on the driverack inputs. The manual for the driverack states to match the mixer max output to the input settings of the driverack. According to Allen and Heath owners manual, the mixwizard max output is +28 db, but I've never come close to pushing it that hard, in fact, I've never pushed past 0 on the master faders, and only once in a blue moon have I taken a channel fader above 0, and that wasn't more than +3 or so.

[ProSoundWeb Community]