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Author Topic: business in smaller installs?  (Read 3229 times)

Frank von Ohain

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business in smaller installs?
« on: August 07, 2017, 06:56:40 PM »

I am facing a transition out of a 30 year career in technology and looking for a good business opportunity.  I relocated out of the silicon valley more than 10 years ago and continuing my career may not be possible without relocating back, which I don’t want to do since I have established a home and family.  So I’m considering buying or starting a business instead.  I have a couple hundred thousand in liquid capital and only modest mortgage debt.  I’m considering a sound business and want to know your thoughts.

Locally, the population in the county and the two nearest cities (outside my county) is 120,000, so this is not near any metro areas.  It is characterized by several small towns and a couple small cities.  There are presently a number of DJ’s and two live sound providers.  I’ve started talking to one of the live providers which might help me in a number of ways and whose side business I might be able to buy. He is also employed by one of the few big churches.

My experience in sound comes from providing for a number of different small churches and live events with portable equipment.  The business opportunity that appeals to me the most would be helping small churches with installs and training their volunteers, but I have doubts that I will be able to find sufficient opportunities locally to prosper my family doing this.  I’m hoping to get feedback that will help me form a more realistic perspective on what it takes to succeed.

I’m attracted to installs because I think I have a depth of technical understanding that would enable me to do them substantially better than I have seen them done in all but the bigger budget venues, but it may just be that it hasn’t been done better because there is not strong enough desire to budget it.

I understand acoustic issues like room modes, SBIR, flutter echo, standing waves, comb filtering, and early reflections and slap-back.  I can quantify these issues with RT60 measurements at various frequencies, high-resolution FFT, and subject-based intelligibility measures.

I have skills that would allow me to use tools like SMAART and EASE software to analyze and design solutions.

I also have experience implementing acoustic solutions including diffraction and diffusion surfaces, broadband absorbers and narrowband devices (membranes), surface treatments, and architectural and decorative components such as ceiling tiles, carpeting, drapes, upholstery, and so on.

I have skills in lighting design and configuration.  I have experience with DMX controllers, but would probably need to get up to speed on the latest software-based systems.

I can consult on projection systems, screens, and the software.

I have skills to troubleshoot technical issues remotely and over the phone.

I can help owners of small-scale installs to identify and quantify acoustic issues and potential solutions.  I can resolve existing issues with system configurations and settings.  If an upgrade is considered, I can help them select loudspeaker placements and types, model in EASE and verify results in SMAART.  I can provide training to volunteers on system operation.  I can provide lighting design and train their volunteers on DMX systems.

The work could involve installing lights and flying speakers.  I would use a licensed/bonded/insured contractor for rigging the trusses and fly hardware and completing the installs.  If I couldn’t find one, I would just get certified myself.  I see 7-day rigger courses for $3K plus travel expenses.  I would not need additional certifications for motor control systems and so on as that is not used at this scale, but I am not trying to cut corners here.

I know there are people here that do this kind of work, probably for bigger venues than I have in mind due to what opportunities I have.  I’ve only just started thinking about this, so I'm sure my thoughts appear to be half-baked.  What have I missed?

What are your thoughts with regard to clients with 75 to 250 people in their churches?  I see that as the size client I have available.  There’s about 50 churches in my area this size.  There’s probably less than 5 that are bigger.  There are mostly small bars and clubs that use portable equipment, small budgets, or have the band bring their own.  I would like to see these smaller clients improve their installs, but I realize that doing that might involve expenses that are not in line with their goals or their priorities.

Live sound with portable systems is mostly done for occasional municipal events, fairs, and carnivals.  The DJ businesses mostly cater to private events, weddings and some parties.  There are a couple big dances in an untreated community center gym.

I might be better off buying a UPS Store or a couple laundromats and a car-wash, but I’d rather be doing something I enjoy.  I’ll be glad if anyone wants to contribute their thoughts on business in sound reinforcement.
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eric lenasbunt

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 10:41:10 PM »

Well, sounds like our market size is rather similar. I'm in Gainesville, Fl, a college town of ~150k people and then we are 1.5-2 hours from 3 very large metro areas where a lot of our show work comes from. Similarly i could move to a larger market and make a lot more, but I have 3 kids and a wife and life and would prefer to drive a little longer to gigs than live elsewhere. 
 We were blessed in our market with good timing. A long time music store that did all the small church installs went out of business at the same time the economy started to recover and we had entered the market. On top of that our main live events competitor in the area had pissed pretty much everyone off so that segment was growing rapidly as well. We are now fortunate to be doing a respectable living in both installs and events.

However, in a market this small being diversified has really been the key to keeping the doors open. For instance this month alone we have closed on almost $100k in install work, which for us is quite good. However in the 2nd quarter of the year we had like $5k in installs; which obviously doesn't pay the bills. Fortunately during that time we were cranking with shows so the Slow install season was not as painful.

All that to say, i LOVE what I do. Would I do it again? Hell yeah. Would I drop a couple hundred thousand of liquid assets into it, he'll no. We built slowly and organically. This is a niche business, it's not like a pizza place where just about everyone will eat a pizza at some point. Our customers (especially in this market size) are few and far between. And they don't all just start using you, it takes a long time and a lot of patience.

I'm also wondering, what is your experience? Are you already out mixing church services and be working in those circles?

Good luck! I am all for doing what you love and pursuing that with a passion. If you have the resources then even better, just remember, it takes a long time and a lot of skill (as well as timing and chance) to get to the point where the business starts to really make sense. So the longer you're u can go without dropping big coin the better.

Also, I'm not a big believer in buying someone else's business unless they have valuable contracts or clients that couldn't be gained otherwise. Otherwise what value does an install business really have? It's the people and knowledge, if those people sell then well they aren't there adding value anymore


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Scott Holtzman

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 03:01:51 AM »

Well, sounds like our market size is rather similar. I'm in Gainesville, Fl, a college town of ~150k people and then we are 1.5-2 hours from 3 very large metro areas where a lot of our show work comes from. Similarly i could move to a larger market and make a lot more, but I have 3 kids and a wife and life and would prefer to drive a little longer to gigs than live elsewhere. 
 We were blessed in our market with good timing. A long time music store that did all the small church installs went out of business at the same time the economy started to recover and we had entered the market. On top of that our main live events competitor in the area had pissed pretty much everyone off so that segment was growing rapidly as well. We are now fortunate to be doing a respectable living in both installs and events.

However, in a market this small being diversified has really been the key to keeping the doors open. For instance this month alone we have closed on almost $100k in install work, which for us is quite good. However in the 2nd quarter of the year we had like $5k in installs; which obviously doesn't pay the bills. Fortunately during that time we were cranking with shows so the Slow install season was not as painful.

All that to say, i LOVE what I do. Would I do it again? Hell yeah. Would I drop a couple hundred thousand of liquid assets into it, he'll no. We built slowly and organically. This is a niche business, it's not like a pizza place where just about everyone will eat a pizza at some point. Our customers (especially in this market size) are few and far between. And they don't all just start using you, it takes a long time and a lot of patience.

I'm also wondering, what is your experience? Are you already out mixing church services and be working in those circles?

Good luck! I am all for doing what you love and pursuing that with a passion. If you have the resources then even better, just remember, it takes a long time and a lot of skill (as well as timing and chance) to get to the point where the business starts to really make sense. So the longer you're u can go without dropping big coin the better.

Also, I'm not a big believer in buying someone else's business unless they have valuable contracts or clients that couldn't be gained otherwise. Otherwise what value does an install business really have? It's the people and knowledge, if those people sell then well they aren't there adding value anymore


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have mentioned it before, I enjoyed the time I lived in Gainesville.  Great standard of living.  Real change of seasons.  The park with the big sink hole on the south side of town was my favorite meditation spot. 

I was in the radio paging business back then.  I left in 1995.  Quick drive to Tampa, Ocala, Jacksonville. Palatka and Lake City are great little towns too.

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eric lenasbunt

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 08:27:01 AM »

I have mentioned it before, I enjoyed the time I lived in Gainesville.  Great standard of living.  Real change of seasons.  The park with the big sink hole on the south side of town was my favorite meditation spot. 

I was in the radio paging business back then.  I left in 1995.  Quick drive to Tampa, Ocala, Jacksonville. Palatka and Lake City are great little towns too.


I love it too. Plus it's a great family town my boys and I can cycle most places in town.

However, by moving 2 hours to Orlando I could probably double or triple my top line revenue within a year. However, we are doing pretty well and I put a higher value on those other aspects of life than growing top line.

To the OP, a wise business man once told me "a small business is not worth much more than its fixtures and inventory at wholesale unless it comes with contracts/customers you can't acquire otherwise"


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Scott Hofmann

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 06:38:45 PM »

In order of preference:
1. UPS Store
2. laundromat
3. car-wash
10. very small church sound contractor
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Scott Hofmann

Tom Bourke

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 10:55:54 AM »

I use to help a friend with that kind of business before I moved.  Same kind of churches your talking about, lots more of them in the area.  There is NO money in it.  Designing a system or running smaart is the easy part.  Convincing them it's better than some volunteer ordering stuff off the internet is almost impossible. You may get called in when they can't get it to work, by then they have spent all the money.

I would go with some other business.  Do the sound thing on a small scale on the side if you must.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 12:35:52 PM »

However, by moving 2 hours to Orlando I could probably double or triple my top line revenue within a year. However, we are doing pretty well and I put a higher value on those other aspects of life than growing top line.

To the OP, a wise business man once told me "a small business is not worth much more than its fixtures and inventory at wholesale unless it comes with contracts/customers you can't acquire otherwise"
So, as many know, I always focus on the business aspect of this industry. A Big-Ass Sound System that you LOVE, but no one knows/wants to rent, is just a big toy, as opposed to a tool to make money.

That being said, Eric, if I was in your shoes, I would seriously consider leasing a small to medium sized warehouse in Orlando, and hiring a couple people to run it. Base some smaller SOS systems there, some basic lighting and projection (think conference center AV work) and wireless, but anything big (the VerTecs, the LED wall, etc) you truck back and forth. This gives your Orlando clients a) an office locally which means b) they have a place to meet your project managers but also c) that "warm and fuzzy" feeling that support is close by, as opposed to 2-3 hours away. This will also help with emergency/urgent/last minute rentals. "Yes, I can have a truck there in an hour," as opposed to "Be there in 4."

Just a thought. :)

-Ray
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Jeffrey Knorr - JRKLabs.com

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 10:01:42 AM »

Hi Frank,

I would also have to recommend steering clear of this path.  It's VERY hard to make money in the audio industry especially so when working with smaller churches.  I definitely would NOT sink six figures into a new business without a rock solid business plan and paying customers lined up.  My heart and passions are in a similar place--I have not been able to make the full time leap (I'm also in the tech industry).  Your money is most likely better put to work in real estate or other businesses. 

Jeff
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 06:55:55 PM »

I am not a business wizzard by any means but I have been around smaller churches and done some work for them from time to time.

50 churches is your market.  I could not, in good conscience, recommend a significant upgrade to a church more frequently than every 5 years-maybe not even 10-unless there is significant growth or change in worship style.  That means an average of 10 churches year IF you capture 100% of the market and get 100% participation in upgrades.

For churches that size, $20,000 is a huge upgrade.  So, I'm thinking a potential market of $200,000.  If you're a really good salesman and can everyone to go the premium route.
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Steve Swaffer

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: business in smaller installs?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 06:55:55 PM »


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