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Author Topic: JBL SRX828SP  (Read 4112 times)

David Winners

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2017, 12:54:03 pm »

Am I missing something here? This seems like basic gain staging. Run noise or music through the system. Set the main outs where you want to run them. Set the dsp in the speakers accordingly to get the SPL you desire and balance the system.

I'm asking as I am missing the apparent complexity of the issue.
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Rob Spence

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2017, 03:27:51 pm »

Am I missing something here? This seems like basic gain staging. Run noise or music through the system. Set the main outs where you want to run them. Set the dsp in the speakers accordingly to get the SPL you desire and balance the system.

I'm asking as I am missing the apparent complexity of the issue.

It is simply that JBL made the dubious choice of having the speaker amp gain be less than all their others and the rest of the competition. Therefore when substituting the new for an old, it is quieter with same drive.

This has confused most who bought them expecting more rather than less.

Another reason I don't shop at the Harmon store.  🙄



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2017, 05:02:29 pm »

It is simply that JBL made the dubious choice of having the speaker amp gain be less than all their others and the rest of the competition. Therefore when substituting the new for an old, it is quieter with same drive.


There is another advantage to having a lower sensitivity.

It can reduce the system noise, much like putting a pad between a processor and amplifier.

So when you want the most dynamic range in a system, a powered speaker with less gain is a start.

Some call it a disadvantage-others call it advantage.

So-once again-it depends on what somebody is looking for and what is most important for a particular situation.
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David Winners

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2017, 02:34:43 pm »

It is simply that JBL made the dubious choice of having the speaker amp gain be less than all their others and the rest of the competition. Therefore when substituting the new for an old, it is quieter with same drive.

This has confused most who bought them expecting more rather than less.

Another reason I don't shop at the Harmon store.  🙄



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I guess I understand the frustration when looking at it from this point of view. Thanks Rob.

I guess I'm used to dealing with mismatched gear and consider it par for the course to set gain structure according to what's in the rig. I wouldn't mess around with wye adapters. I would just change the gain setting to +6 in the DSP and be done with it.
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Scott Gentry

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2017, 06:29:54 pm »

I guess I understand the frustration when looking at it from this point of view. Thanks Rob.

I guess I'm used to dealing with mismatched gear and consider it par for the course to set gain structure according to what's in the rig. I wouldn't mess around with wye adapters. I would just change the gain setting to +6 in the DSP and be done with it.

I might take some flack for this, so I'll preface anything I say with the disclaimer that I am a consumer, not a sound professional, purchasing product the way a significant number of end users do. Meaning, I'm running a small rig that can be used locally for a small band, DJ, etc. I have personally spoken with two people using the SRX 800 series who run live sound for what I'd consider medium sized outdoor events, both used 4 SRX tops, and 8 SRX828's in that scenario, both had bigger line array systems for anything requiring more. Both had very positive things to say about the SRX 800 series, so I'm confident in the right hands they are highly capable

That being said, to me, they seem mismatched from the factory, in this regard. First off, the input sensitivity options between the subs and the tops don't have identical options. From what I've read, this can become an issue for some, and I was one of them. I run a decent quality, but older technology analog mixer, I did have an issue getting a strong input signal to the amp, not an issue getting output from the box.

Many simply suggested cranking the output of the box, and I suppose that's doable, but to my simply complex thinking, that's raising the noise floor unnecessarily. Yes, there's an ability to use make up gain once the internal dsp is accessed, but many consumers don't do that.

As previously stated here and elsewhere, JBL did include a consumer setting on the top boxes. This bumps the input sensitivity 12db, and for me was the simplest and easiest way to get good input levels without driving my board to the waaay upper levels. I ended up dialing back about-5 on the input sensitivity once it was set to consumer, netting about a 7db hotter input signal than what is factory set at the line level setting. That got me a great balance for both input and output levels, and the 835's sounded freaking awesome.

Problem is, that's not available on the subs, only the line level input sensitivity setting is available. Here's the thing, and I'm definitely not 100% sure, but I don't recall seeing anything other than line or mic level input sensitivity settings on any other powered boxes. So, why did JBL do this? My guess is because some want the lower input sensitivity, and some don't, no problem. But, if you're designing a matched system, why wouldn't you have that availability between the entire series.

For that reason, I say they are "mismatched" amongst themselves..
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2017, 09:05:22 pm »

The level of complexity you are adding to this continues to baffle me.  If this was an analog speaker it would be analagous to saying I have to turn the input level up to 6 o'clock to get the same output. Would you still buy the speakers?

Input sensitivity is a bad criteria to jusge them by,

Instead of cranking up the input gain on the tops why dont you turn it down to match the subs?.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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Scott Gentry

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2017, 12:14:24 am »

The level of complexity you are adding to this continues to baffle me.  If this was an analog speaker it would be analagous to saying I have to turn the input level up to 6 o'clock to get the same output. Would you still buy the speakers?

Input sensitivity is a bad criteria to jusge them by,

Instead of cranking up the input gain on the tops why dont you turn it down to match the subs?.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

I think I said several positive things about the 835's. Whether  it's been made complex or not I don't know, but the settings on the speakers themselves are different, that much is true.

I also had to push my board way higher than ever before without altering the input sensitivity to get decent output from them. Once I changed the input sensitivity to consumer I was able to run the mixer in the same operating ranges as before. Coincidentally, that operating range was also Allen and Heaths' recommended levels per their manual, and yes I pulled it out and reread it to be sure. I'm not the only one who had a similar experience.

Obviously it's no big deal to crank the output on one and rollback on another, but when people are going -3 to -5 on the tops, +6 or more on the subs to get them balanced, I'd say that's a bit of a gap for a matched system, but that's just my opinion. Furthermore, rolling back the mains that much and leaving them on the line setting, so they could be matched with the subs didn't provide enough output for MY satisfaction, and I'd clip the mixer, yes without the driverack, before I'd reach limit on the mains.

Once again, I was definitely able to get them to sound Really Good, but these are the real world experiences I've had. The  two guys I spoke with run their subs towards max, and the mains rolled back. Just like you said, so no big deal.

My reply was to the post about running mix matched setups, and in some ways, I think these are somewhat themselves. Just my opinion, ok if you don't agree. I can't explain why some don't have issues and some do, but I've dug enough into this to know I'm not the only one who's had some struggles here.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:25:20 am by Scott Gentry »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2017, 11:36:44 am »


Scott G, the struggle is in your head.  That you have external company is not validation.

Your MixWiz has the same output voltage capability as many (most?) other mixers.  The output voltage swing is determined by the console PSU and output circuit capability at that max voltage.  A-H (and Yamaha and others) suggest the level you're operating at to preserve about 20dB of headroom for transient peaks (the kind that don't show up on the meter, they're so fast).  It's not because there is a majik sweet spot or that the mixer will sound bad/explode/morph into a Model T if you run it 6dB hotter.

Your desire to have everything match up right out of the box is not a bad thing in and of itself, but realize that JBL has more than 1 model of top box and more than 1 subwoofer model in the line.  The "consumer" input level selection exists because JBL thought that those models were most likely to be used by less experienced operators, driving them with consumer type mixers (which your MixWiz is not).

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Steve Garris

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 02:22:51 pm »

I might take some flack for this, so I'll preface anything I say with the disclaimer that I am a consumer, not a sound professional, purchasing product the way a significant number of end users do. Meaning, I'm running a small rig that can be used locally for a small band, DJ, etc. I have personally spoken with two people using the SRX 800 series who run live sound for what I'd consider medium sized outdoor events, both used 4 SRX tops, and 8 SRX828's in that scenario, both had bigger line array systems for anything requiring more. Both had very positive things to say about the SRX 800 series, so I'm confident in the right hands they are highly capable

That being said, to me, they seem mismatched from the factory, in this regard. First off, the input sensitivity options between the subs and the tops don't have identical options. From what I've read, this can become an issue for some, and I was one of them. I run a decent quality, but older technology analog mixer, I did have an issue getting a strong input signal to the amp, not an issue getting output from the box.

Many simply suggested cranking the output of the box, and I suppose that's doable, but to my simply complex thinking, that's raising the noise floor unnecessarily. Yes, there's an ability to use make up gain once the internal dsp is accessed, but many consumers don't do that.

As previously stated here and elsewhere, JBL did include a consumer setting on the top boxes. This bumps the input sensitivity 12db, and for me was the simplest and easiest way to get good input levels without driving my board to the waaay upper levels. I ended up dialing back about-5 on the input sensitivity once it was set to consumer, netting about a 7db hotter input signal than what is factory set at the line level setting. That got me a great balance for both input and output levels, and the 835's sounded freaking awesome.

Problem is, that's not available on the subs, only the line level input sensitivity setting is available. Here's the thing, and I'm definitely not 100% sure, but I don't recall seeing anything other than line or mic level input sensitivity settings on any other powered boxes. So, why did JBL do this? My guess is because some want the lower input sensitivity, and some don't, no problem. But, if you're designing a matched system, why wouldn't you have that availability between the entire series.

For that reason, I say they are "mismatched" amongst themselves..

Agree 100%. I was hoping for a firmware update for this but it's probably not likely.
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Scott Gentry

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Re: JBL SRX828SP
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2017, 11:51:10 pm »

Agree 100%. I was hoping for a firmware update for this but it's probably not likely.

Thank you, I think some skipped over the disclaimer part.

I've been very cautious with my wording because I do feel the SRX 800's are a great product and sound really good once I got them tuned to my liking. Furthermore, they have a level of dsp available that's far beyond just about everything else in its price range. For you more experienced guys that's a plus. For me, it added a level of complexity that I wasn't expecting, or looking for. Perhaps I should have done more research, so that's really my fault.




« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 01:22:53 am by Scott Gentry »
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