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Author Topic: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer  (Read 3116 times)

Charles Razzell

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Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« on: July 28, 2017, 04:46:32 pm »

Hey everyone, new forum member here.

My church is about to order a new Yamaha TF3 digital and plans to replace the on-stage personal mixer boxes (which have basically died at this point) with new ones.  We will have a Dante card in the TF3 mixer, and will use two digital snakes on stage (TIO-1608Ds).

The current debate is whether to go for, either:
  • Elite Core PM-16-CORE-8 bundle which will require 16 analog inputs fed to its input module from the 16 OMNI-outs of the Mixer, or
  • Aviom Mix320-D bundle of 6 A320s including a Dante D400 box to take a direct digital signal from the mixer, plus two unbundled A320s for the stage
Both these systems provide 8 personal monitor mixers on the stage, the latter has the benefit that the signal doesn't need to pass through an analog bridge to get to the monitor system. But the Aviom system would cost about $1000 additional to acquire vs. the Elite Core. 

The ultra-simple user-interface of the Elite-Core attractive, but I suspect those 32 analog potentiometers could start to crackle after a few years.

What do you guys think? Is it worth putting down the extra $1k to make an elegant digital system vs. Elite Core which is simple for the end user and cheaper to acquire?

All relevant thoughts welcome.

Charles.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 05:44:09 pm »

Hey everyone, new forum member here.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 10:55:02 pm »

Why not use the Yamaha monitor mix software?  Why go for a hardware solution?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Charles Razzell

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 12:01:43 pm »

Why not use the Yamaha monitor mix software?  Why go for a hardware solution?

Thanks for your reply. I am currently using a similar technique comprising a Behringer XR18 and X AIR Q on Android tablets for monitor mix adjustments in a temporary arrangement until our new equipment arrives. We can manage like this, but it's really not ideal for the following reasons:
  • Musicians struggle to use a control surface that is not stand mounted, particularly the drummer. Balancing a tablet on your knees while adjusting a monitor mix on a touch screen, while drumming doesn't always end well
  • With musicians rotating in and out there is a bit of a learning curve to using a tablet vs. a dedicated physical box that we see playing out during sound check each week. Over the long term this would settle down, no doubt.
  • Having to deal with two boxes instead of one adds to the confusion, since the physical volume control on the headphone amplifier is effectively in series with the virtual volume controls on the touch screen = cognitive overload (for some)

Anyway, having run a system like this for several months, I was personally looking forward to having some dedicated boxes that do just one thing and do it in the simplest way possible for the user.  (The one-knob-per-channel concept of the Elite Core is ideal in that respect).

Charles.
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Daniel Levi

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 02:41:03 pm »

Behringer P16 System? Nit used it myself but seems to get universally good reviews esp, given it's price.  The P16i input unit can take 16ch of analogue or ADAT (in banks of 8), or if DANTE is a necessity an X32 CORE with the X-DANTE card would work (although would nit really be worth it for the price).
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brian maddox

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 04:00:28 pm »

I've got a LOT of experience using these types of systems, and I've found that the biggest limitation of all of them is the 16 channel limit.  No matter what system you use, that 16 channels gets used up very quickly.

Part of what causes this is that band members and singers always want different things.  Singers want all the vocals broken out and are fine with instruments being grouped.  Band members don't care if the bgvs are all on one channel, but really want all the instruments broken out, and the more stereo the better.

So while I wasn't a fan of avioms first offering, the a320 is a very compelleing system.  Simple enough to use, and when you include stereo inlput availability, each mixer easily accommodates 24ish channels.  Plus, singers can have a different set of channels from band members.  Heck, everybody can have a different channel set from everyone else from among 64 sources.

so with this system, you can send all your inputs from your 2 stage boxes direct to the aviom along with several stereo sub mixes for drums or "Eddies huge keyboard rig". Then if the drummer wants to break out all his drums on separate handles he can.  Or Brian the guitar guy can take a stereo sub of drums along with kick and snare separate for tempo.  And Kelly the WL can leave all that out in favor of her capo'd Taylor and her vocal mic.   ;)

My only concern would be durability as the first generation were pretty terrible in the regard.  Otherwise, I think the aviom wins hands down.
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Erik Jerde

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 08:14:09 pm »

Check out the Digital Audio Labs Livemix product.  It integrates with Dante and is a very solid system.  It's not perfect but it's very good.  I've yet to find a perfect system.

http://www.digitalaudio.com/livemix-personal-monitor-system/
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 04:10:14 am »

Just buy stands for the phones/tables? Would this not be cheaper.

Set the headphone amp to 3/4 and tell them not to touch the damned thing. Really a PQ system is nice but not needed.

We currently run Allen and Heath ME units(they do convert to Dante and offer 40 channels )

Mymix also has offering

The above mentioned ones are good as well.
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Charles Razzell

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2017, 10:57:55 am »

So while I wasn't a fan of avioms first offering, the a320 is a very compelleing system.  Simple enough to use, and when you include stereo inlput availability, each mixer easily accommodates 24ish channels.  Plus, singers can have a different set of channels from band members.  Heck, everybody can have a different channel set from everyone else from among 64 sources.

Thanks, this was an aspect I had failed to consider - perhaps because I'm typically running with fewer active channels (even in the FOH) than you probably are. Good to know we could expand without having to replace the on-stage monitoring system, though.
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Charles Razzell

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Re: Personal monitor system for a Yamaha TF3 digital mixer
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 11:03:03 am »

Just buy stands for the phones/tables? Would this not be cheaper.
Yes!
Quote
Set the headphone amp to 3/4 and tell them not to touch the damned thing. Really a PQ system is nice but not needed.
I have just about learned that lesson two weeks ago, and made it a practice to test everyone's monitor amp and set the volume to 2/3 and make sure the master aux-send for that amplifier is at 0dB.  So yes, it can work.

Quote
We currently run Allen and Heath ME units(they do convert to Dante and offer 40 channels )

Mymix also has offering

The above mentioned ones are good as well.
Thanks for the info.
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