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Author Topic: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?  (Read 24718 times)

chris harwood

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Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« on: March 29, 2011, 06:51:41 PM »

Title says it.  about 1/4 the cost of the Aviom and Furman 16 channel units.

$200 for mixer and $250 for the distribution unit.   

Man, I hate Behringer stuff though.  Can't recall a working 5 year old piece of equipment.

Are they going to be the "new Ibanez" company...  Finally getting some respect.
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Walt Jaquith

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 09:44:20 PM »

I've actually never had a piece of Behringer equipment die on me.  Don't get me wrong; I think I'm very lucky, and am long past the point where I'm buying much in that class, but Behringer offers really significant bang for the buck in budget gear.  As for the P16-M, I'm not sure.  I'm glad they made it; someone needed to come along and give the big players a slap up alongside the head.  Aviom is good gear of course, but their prices are just insulting.  It's not that hard, really.  A/D converters are pretty well traveled ground, and ditto for the rest of the system, both on the analong and digital ends.  The Behringer setup is actually affordable, and I bet they sell a ton of them.  I hadn't tracked Behringer gear for a while, and wasn't aware that they'd come out with a digital monitor system. 
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chris harwood

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 10:25:34 PM »

yes, I will admit Behringer offers some equipment at a price point that allows many to jump into the game.  $100 mixers, etc.
I can see this really taking off in HOW setups, mainly for the price point... either good or bad. 

Not sure if "serious" setups would feel the need to save a couple pennies, but as sorry a state as it is, the Church really seems to lean towards budget gear much of the time.   But I understand stewardship as well.
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chuck clark

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 10:40:56 PM »

I hate to say it but, I've had 3 Behringer x-overs fail on me....IN A ROW!  I don't even look at it anymore.
Buy the extended full coverage warranty every time if you must go B-ringer cheap. Good luck.
Chuck
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Walt Jaquith

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 01:42:01 AM »

Anytime you buy in the price basement you are definitely in YMMV territory.  I went and checked out the Behringer setup.  It's tempting; the savings is considerable over Aviom.  But...not until it at least has a track record.  Probably not even then.
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Matthias Heitzer

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 06:50:27 AM »

Behringer build their own factory ("Behringer City") to ensure a constant quality (i don't want to judge how high it is).
Before, they had to rely on oem manufacturers, who, of course, wanted make as much profit as possible and skimped on parts quality and quality control.
Some speak of freight containers full of lemons.

Further, Behringer, Midas and Klark are all part of the "Music Group", so we can assume some kind of technolog transfer between the subcompanies.

Behringer had a pretty good digital mixer some time ago, but the production had to be stopped because some vital parts (the dsp if i remember correctly) were no longer available because of RohS.
It looked similar to a Yamaha 01V, but had more features.

A lot of companies have outsourced their production to China or other asian countries or at least buy components there.

Napoleon Bonaparte said: "If China awakes, the world will tremble."
Well, that was some time ago, but the combination of the Chinese assiduity and the extent of their resources is still a reason to make us shiver.


I've got a few 15+ years old behinger devices that still work fine.
Some old gates got problems with their bypass Relais after ~10 years.

Of course, i have been disappointed by some of their products, but even then it was more a design/function than a reliability problem. I simply have no use for a Di that creates more noise than an unbalanced connection from stage to Console.
And i also don't like EQs that do not sound neutral when set to "flat".
A near church has got a few Behringer Mics, they have so bad handlingnoise, they aren't even good for talkback.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 07:52:08 AM »

Title says it.  about 1/4 the cost of the Aviom and Furman 16 channel units.

$200 for mixer and $250 for the distribution unit.
Is this an actual product?  Has somebody had their hands on some units?  The related information on the Behringer web site seems limited to marketing type information with no technical data or manual available, which makes me wonder if this is something actually available.

Are they going to be the "new Ibanez" company...  Finally getting some respect.
At least for me, Behringer's past business practices of many years makes respect likely unobtainable and perhaps less disdain would be more accurate.
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Mike Spitzer

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 08:12:26 AM »

I asked around and can't find anybody using these things, yet. Basically, we've all been burned by Behringer in the past. Some of us a lot (I will say I have a pair of B1520's I bought for a song a few years ago that are 5 or 6 years old and working great, though). In general, I've been very unhappy with their quality.

That said, the P16-M is at a price point that's hard to ignore, especially compared to the Avioms which have a proven track record. As far as I can tell, everybody's just waiting for somebody else to buy them, but nobody's willing to beta test them, so to speak.

If you're serious about looking at them, they're cheap enough that you could buy an extra module or two for backup in case of a failure. Then, make sure you have some floor wedges available in case of an emergency if the distributer fails.

I'll also add that on the Behringer equipment I've had that failed under warranty, the service was very easy and quick. If something fails on Sunday, you shouldn't have any trouble having it replaced by the next service.

-mS
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Walt Jaquith

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 10:00:00 AM »

That's the other thing that kind of spooked me; very few places seem to be carrying this gear yet.  It's listed on Full Compass' site..."usually ships in 3-4 weeks" :o  That tells me they don't really have them.  Behringer also isn't making a big deal out of them on their website; you have to kind of hunt for them.  So either it's so new it hasn't hit the distribution chain, or it's going to be like the digital mixer that Matthias mentioned; you can read all about it...but you can't actually buy one.  Time will tell, I guess.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 10:46:31 AM »

Behringer build their own factory ("Behringer City") to ensure a constant quality (i don't want to judge how high it is).
They built their factory complex away from the other established factories to attract cheap labor. Just smart business.
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Before, they had to rely on oem manufacturers, who, of course, wanted make as much profit as possible and skimped on parts quality and quality control.
I actually worked with one of those OEMs, and the customer specifies what parts are used. The parts used are not part of the OEM's profit which is made purely for assembling those parts into assemblies. I have heard reports of entire runs with high reject rates due to sub standard parts specified by "the customer", an unfortunate situation for both customer and OEM.

We always enjoyed good results from that same OEM.
Quote

Some speak of freight containers full of lemons.
No OEM contract manufacturer can stay in business if all they do is make products that don't work. The customer routinely places a few of their own people inside the OEM, or visits them, to insure process and procedures are followed. Quality is largely influenced by the customer's attention to detail, while I have been inside ISO-9000 Chinese factories 15 years ago.   
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Further, Behringer, Midas and Klark are all part of the "Music Group", so we can assume some kind of technolog transfer between the subcompanies.
You know what they say about assuming, but it is a fact that Behringer has grown so large and profitable they could purchase several formerly well respected pro audio brands.
Quote
Behringer had a pretty good digital mixer some time ago, but the production had to be stopped because some vital parts (the dsp if i remember correctly) were no longer available because of RohS.
It looked similar to a Yamaha 01V, but had more features.

A lot of companies have outsourced their production to China or other asian countries or at least buy components there.
The majority of electronic components used today by everybody come from China or similar low labor cost regions. Most mainstream companies have had to shift at least part of their production there to remain competitive against aggressive pricing world-wide, not just for the US market who was late to embrace Chinese built products. 
Quote
Napoleon Bonaparte said: "If China awakes, the world will tremble."
Well, that was some time ago, but the combination of the Chinese assiduity and the extent of their resources is still a reason to make us shiver.
China has a very old and interesting culture. Which would be of interest regarding Chinese brands.
Quote

I've got a few 15+ years old behinger devices that still work fine.
Some old gates got problems with their bypass Relais after ~10 years.
If you go back a little further Behringer rack products were once built in Europe.
Quote
Of course, i have been disappointed by some of their products, but even then it was more a design/function than a reliability problem. I simply have no use for a Di that creates more noise than an unbalanced connection from stage to Console.
And i also don't like EQs that do not sound neutral when set to "flat".
A near church has got a few Behringer Mics, they have so bad handlingnoise, they aren't even good for talkback.

The products are clearly designed to be inexpensive. Whether they are a good value or just too cheap to be useful, depends on how demanding your application, and how critical you are. It is a good idea to listen to the experience of others with similar needs, regarding any given model. 

JR
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Re: Behringer P16-M a joke or a steal of a deal?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 10:46:31 AM »


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