Topic: This place is a curse (Read 5078 times)

David Winners · « **on:** July 23, 2017, 10:35:25 AM »

A friend of mine hosted a battle of the bands at a local hotel. My band entered to help support the event and to network with other local musicians. I'm really glad we went, as I got to meet some very talented and friendly musicians.

The event was held in an atrium. It's basically like mixing in a racquet ball court. All hard, flat surfaces. Very high ceiling. I've mixed a few events in this room myself, utilizing techniques learned from reading on PSW, i.e. Getting speakers as high as possible and tilted down, keeping sound off the walls, low stage volume, excite the room as little as possible. It has never been great by any means, but sounded acceptable considering the circumstances.

The sound provider for the event was a DJ with a brand new PA. He hired 2 guys to mix the bands, one being a local provider and the other a Full Sail grad who had run sound twice in the past 3 years at his church.

At this event, they had 2 separate performance areas set up side by side, to allow one one stage to changeover while a band performed on the other stage. They had a single pa set up L/R that spanned both stages that consisted of (2) JBL TR225 and 2 PRX subs per side, stacked in piles with no splay. There were 5 different types of vocal mics, 3 different brands of powered wedges and no quad boxes for backline, no DIs anywhere, nothing labeled.

FOH was a MixWiz with some outboard on one stage, feeding into an aux/in on a Behringer Eurolive which was running the second stage and feeding the PA.

When I first arrived, I rolled my bass rig into the atrium and there was a dubstep track bouncing around the room like The Great Attractor's Bouncing Ball. I literally had a hard time finding the downbeat. The DJ had a big smile on his face. This was going to be an adventure.

We drew number one, so we set up and got ready for line check. There was no direction, no stage manager at all, nothing in the monitors, no Voice of God. He unmuted the bass channel without looking at the PFL and I thought the windows were going to break. Everyone in the room jumped. It took a long time, over 30 minutes, to get us up and running, and the monitors were never close to right. We just went with it as we were sick of trying to get anything resembling "good" out of the monitors. I told him to either give us all a single mix with level vocals so we could mix ourselves or to just put individual vocals in that person's wedge. Didn't happen.

Luckily, we could hear our vocals slapping off the back wall just fine. We don't need no stinking monitors. We powered through and played our set. Got some nice feedback from the judges. We had fun, as we always do, and the crowd was really into it.

The next band was a group I regularly provide for, and they had major issues. This band was mixed in the MixWiz that was feeding an aux/in on the main board. The vocals were distorting horribly in the mains. They did 2 songs before the sound man called a pause and tried to find the problem. The band was telling me to get involved but there was no way I was going to stick my nose into his business. That would be pretty rude. They made it a little better, but the problem was still there.

After loading out, I came back in to see the rest of the bands perform. I was hanging out around the mix position talking to the sound guys. One of them recognized me and asked for some help. Between bands, I chased the problem down to the aux/in on the Behringer board. It was being overdriven by the output on the MixWiz. It sounded relatively better after they dropped the levels on the L/R on the MixWiz.

So here's the curse.

After reading on PSW for a year, and implementing many things I have learned here, the bar has been raised. My expectations of sound reinforcement and professionalism are much higher than they used to be. Simple things done wrong bother me. I'm cursed by never being satisfied. I still have loads of fun, but in the back of my head, I'm always thinking about how it could be better.

I know that the true professionals that frequent PSW could poke holes in my system and the way I do things just as I have done to these well meaning people I talked about in this post. They were both very nice guys and a lot of fun to hang out with. I directed them both to PSW in hopes that they will come learn from the wealth of knowledge that is available here.

P.S. The event promoter contracted me for the next event.

Mark Cadwallader · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2017, 10:32:07 PM »

You appear to be aptly named. Congrats on being cursed!

Dave Garoutte · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2017, 05:15:52 PM »

If you do this space again, see if you can do some temporary sound treatment.
Pipe and drape and/or cheap acoustic panels PANELS .
It sounds like they do music here occasionally, so they might be willing to help with the costs if the result is good enough.
Panels on the back and front walls, and the sides near the speakers will help more than you would think.
Space them an inch or two from the walls for maximum effect. Covered with acoustic fabric FABRIC and they even look good.

Jack Arnott · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2017, 06:08:33 PM »

Quote from: David Winners on July 23, 2017, 10:35:25 AM

We just went with it as we were sick of trying to get anything resembling "good" out of the monitors.

For bands, this line is key. Sometimes you have to realize when things are as good as they are going to get, and go with it.

frank kayser · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2017, 12:01:40 PM »

Quote from: David Winners on July 23, 2017, 10:35:25 AM

After reading on PSW for a year, and implementing many things I have learned here, the bar has been raised. My expectations of sound reinforcement and professionalism are much higher than they used to be. Simple things done wrong bother me. I'm cursed by never being satisfied. I still have loads of fun, but in the back of my head, I'm always thinking about how it could be better.

I know that the true professionals that frequent PSW could poke holes in my system and the way I do things just as I have done to these well meaning people I talked about in this post. They were both very nice guys and a lot of fun to hang out with. I directed them both to PSW in hopes that they will come learn from the wealth of knowledge that is available here.

Ah, the curse. Yeah, I've got it. After my offer is accepted, I've tweaked many small systems, and received thanks. Granted, I'm a large-ish fish in a very small pond (puddle)... and probably have little business throwing stones for any reason... no doubt most here could do much better with my rig, or any I've touched... and despite the kudo's I get on my work, and the smiles I get upon return... whether mixing on another's rig or mine, it has seldom translated into real work. I've been very fortunate in having some very nice jobs thrown my way from another member here... (many thanks again!)

Back to the curse... My wife who is never critical of much of anything is coming to me complaining of the mix after she's been out with friends. Whaaaat?

The curse is contagious.

frank

John Roberts {JR} · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2017, 12:08:37 PM »

Be warned, if not careful you may learn that there are significant quality differences between good and bad coffee, good and bad, beer... etc.

Many things we take for granted can be better enough that it matters, and when you learn the difference it is hard to go backwards.

JR

Dave Garoutte · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2017, 12:33:00 PM »

How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?

David Winners · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2017, 02:47:12 PM »

Quote from: Dave Garoutte on July 24, 2017, 05:15:52 PM

If you do this space again, see if you can do some temporary sound treatment.
Pipe and drape and/or cheap acoustic panels PANELS .
It sounds like they do music here occasionally, so they might be willing to help with the costs if the result is good enough.
Panels on the back and front walls, and the sides near the speakers will help more than you would think.
Space them an inch or two from the walls for maximum effect. Covered with acoustic fabric FABRIC and they even look good.

Thanks for this.

I spoke to the management about treating the room. They are having a company come in to quote the install. I how they decide to do it. I have 4 shows booked there coming up.

David Winners · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2017, 02:49:26 PM »

Quote from: Jack Arnott on July 24, 2017, 06:08:33 PM

For bands, this line is key. Sometimes you have to realize when things are as good as they are going to get, and go with it.

I'm lucky enough to play with musicians that have been doing this well for a long time. We've all been through about every situation I can think of and know how to roll with the punches and still have fun.

David Winners · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2017, 02:52:45 PM »

Quote from: John Roberts {JR} on July 25, 2017, 12:08:37 PM

Be warned, if not careful you may learn that there are significant quality differences between good and bad coffee, good and bad, beer... etc.

Many things we take for granted can be better enough that it matters, and when you learn the difference it is hard to go backwards.

JR

I'm a chef/owner by day. I'm a truly picky bastard.

And I serve Kona coffee in my restaurant.

lindsay Dean · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2017, 02:53:40 PM »

Hopefully the venue owners will be braced for the sticker shock
of the acoustic treatment, and are informed about the benefits of it.

g'bye, Dick Rees · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2017, 03:01:27 PM »

Quote from: David Winners on July 27, 2017, 02:52:45 PM

I'm a chef/owner by day. I'm a truly picky bastard.

And I serve Kona coffee in my restaurant.

Yes, but do you grind the beans straight into the filter and brew the cups individually?

John Roberts {JR} · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2017, 03:07:32 PM »

Quote from: David Winners on July 27, 2017, 02:52:45 PM

I'm a chef/owner by day. I'm a truly picky bastard.

And I serve Kona coffee in my restaurant.

I have roasted my own coffee for 20 years. I tried Kona once but didn't seem worth the price premium.

There are lots of good (arabica) coffee beans from all around the world, and lots of bad ones (rousta) from viet nam.

JR

g'bye, Dick Rees · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2017, 03:45:15 PM »

Quote from: John Roberts {JR} on July 27, 2017, 03:07:32 PM

I have roasted my own coffee for 20 years.

JR

JR...

You might want to check the burner. It should have been done by now...

Brian_Henry · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2017, 05:42:49 PM »

Quote from: lindsay Dean on July 27, 2017, 02:53:40 PM

Hopefully the venue owners will be braced for the sticker shock
of the acoustic treatment, and are informed about the benefits of it.

They should look into having it professionally designed and then fabricated/installed by a contractor who is familiar with the techniques or who can simply follow directions well. The proper materials are readily available and cheap.

The premade treatments are as you say very costly.

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