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[Stelios Mac]

does this mean theres a distortion (for lack of a better term) inherent in mackie's lows...  seems liek this is the exact opposite of what i would want... especially if i do end up getting a subwoofer...

The SRM450s are horrible in the high mids and highs, especially if you go anywhere near the limiter. There may be some low-mid cabiner resonance but nothing excessive - They're alright.

my only issue with the sudden attack of the dj trolls is the telling me to "use the gear properly and it wont break" and then in the same breath calling it useless cheap gear.. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS... is it cheap, underpowered, fragile crap, or a sophiatocated tool specially curated for your arsenal...

First of all you've got things wrong. There's no "dj trolls" on this forum. Mostly seasoned and well respected professionals that have already given you plenty of excellent advice.

If you're planning to use your speakers for heavily limited DJ music you need to run them well below their limit or you'll still be heavily abusing them without knowing. I'd say plan for at least 6dB of headroom, maybe even more. Since your music will have zero dynamics, you'll need to make sure you're running it at RMS power, or you'll be heating up and abusing the voicecoils excessively.

All speakers that are priced at $350 a pair will be "cheap, underpowered, fragile crap".
A QSC HPR box like suggested by others or anything above that would be closer to what you describe as "sophisticated tool specially curated for your arsenal".

Maybe you are the one who needs to make up his mind? You came here asking for advice. We're all in perfect agreement with each other, telling you to spend some more and get some proper tools for your job. It seems as if you just came here to justify spending $300 on a pair of crappy Behringers just so you could blame somebody when they die.

lots of comments about cheap speakers being not powerful enough to fill the room? you cant buy loud budget 15" speakers?

Speakers under $350 a pair will not fill a room at volumes DJs require whilst maintaining proper headroom, no.
I paid more than $350 for a set of very low-end nearfield monitors, designed to amplify music for just a single person.
You can go ahead and buy whatever you want, but don't expect us to support and justify your decision.

is this what people are talking about where the speakers are punching their guts out IN A BAD WAY... a speaker might be designed to go very loud such as a 15"... but beware it will rattle and vibrate in unpleasant ways... totally seperate from the distortion that happens from blowing out the speaker... or is this considered more an consequence of bad room acoustics...

or is both wrong and this is just what happens from blowing out smaller speakers...

"a speaker might be designed to go very loud such as a 15"" - just like saying "A display is designed to be very bright, like a 24""
There is absolutely no connection between the two.
When a speaker rattles, vibrates & distorts, you can be absolutely certain it is not designed to go anywhere near that volume.

Room acoustics can create some unwanted artifacts (certain notes in the low end jumping out) but usually not what you're describing.

Hope this helps and good luck with your choice. 

[Scott Holtzman]

i plan on buying a single sub... therefore im thinking 10" would be fine...

maybe i should be going more for tone than volume on the lows...  and clarity in the mids and highs... ive heard mackies are a little "harsh" and have a hard edge to them... does this mean theres a distortion (for lack of a better term) inherent in mackie's lows...  seems liek this is the exact opposite of what i would want... especially if i do end up getting a subwoofer... 


my only issue with the sudden attack of the dj trolls is the telling me to "use the gear properly and it wont break" and then in the same breath calling it useless cheap gear.. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS... is it cheap, underpowered, fragile crap, or a sophiatocated tool specially curated for your arsenal...

if the speakers are designed for a specific volume... then im not going above that... PERIOD... so as you say there shouldnt be any need for repairs...

but if the built in amp dies on me.... id like to be able to replace it... im looking for ACTIVE SPEAKERS only

lots of comments about cheap speakers being not powerful enough to fill the room? you cant buy loud budget 15" speakers?

ultimatley now its just a matter of what has the best clarity and tone... not necessarily at the EXPENSE of power, volume, bass... but certainly taking precedent...

is this what people are talking about where the speakers are punching their guts out IN A BAD WAY... a speaker might be designed to go very loud such as a 15"... but beware it will rattle and vibrate in unpleasant ways... totally seperate from the distortion that happens from blowing out the speaker... or is this considered more an consequence of bad room acoustics...

or is both wrong and this is just what happens from blowing out smaller speakers...

ive heard the yamaha dxr and the ev elv are more tone oriented than volume oriented??

I'm sorry but this is basically incomprehensible.   Your terms are subjective and you don't have a grasp on basic audio concepts.  If you want to up your game in a meaningful way you have to study.

But you really don't need to be an audio expert to play music back in a small room.  What you do have to do is take some advice.  You were given quite a bit of it.  You still are generalizing on manufacturers.  Mackie doesn't have a specific sound nor does Yamaha or JBL.  All of them make great products and a few clunkers.

When you get to the price point you are searching for you can buy a decent set of home speakers.  The idea to buy one speaker and then budget for the other was a great one.  You didn't even comment on that.

The size of a speaker also tells little about it.  You can't assume a speaker produces higher output or lower extension just by driver size.  It's as meaningless as amplifier output power.

As mentioned if you double your budget you can purchase one speaker that is at the very entry level of what one would consider a professional product.  Something that is well built and can withstand the rigors of being setup and transported frequently. 

Advice is free, take it or leave it.  No matter how many times you ask the answer will be the same.

BTW, if you want good advice you should show respect and at least make an attempt at spelling, punctuation and grammar. 

[Jeff Lelko]

I'll hold back and wait for the real experts here to pick apart what you've said, but in short, the size of a woofer and amount of power is meaningless when determining how loud a speaker can get and what it'll sound like when pushed to the upper limit of its performance range.  Filling a room has nothing to do with woofer size either.  To be perfectly honest, if you're asking these types of questions it'll be very much to your benefit to learn how a large(ish) format sound system works first and understand how to properly size/deploy one before spending any money.  Trust me, this is one of those things you want to get right the first time.  Or...you can go buy something cheap from Craigslist or Guitar Center and hope for the best.  Your choice!   

Using quality gear versus using gear properly?  Yes.  It's a bit of give and take, at least in my experience.  There's a QSC video out there that shows amps and speakers being tossed off a roof and still working fine.  That's a bit extreme, but professional equipment (or high end prosumer level) designed for life on the road can generally take more abuse than something you buy at Walmart or Best Buy.  At the same time, if you push something beyond its intended limit of operation there's a good chance you'll break it.  Again, some gear can tolerate this better than others.  Try as you might, accidents will happen.  Do you really want to be replacing parts every time someone hot-swaps a 1/4" or forgets to turn off the speakers before the mixer?  Gear falling out of your truck/van/trailer?  It happens. 

I know this discussion isn't going as you intended, but us DJ Trolls have actually been quite gentle...

[Jeff Lelko]

We're all in perfect agreement to each other...

Three of us type a response at the same time...all saying basically the same thing in different words?  Yep!

[Chris Grimshaw]

All other things being equal, a bigger driver can move more air (and therefore produce more bass) than a smaller driver.
However, larger drivers also demand lower crossover frequencies to the next driver up (the large cones aren't great through the midrange, so something else needs to come in and cover it), meaning the manufacturer must use a larger compression driver or the midrange will suffer.

I'd rather have a 12"/1" box over a 15"/1" box, but I'd take a 15"/2" box over both of those for your application.


For your budget, if you really shop around carefully, you might (might) be able to get a used pair of Yamaha DBR10s. Those are the absolute minimum in Active Speakers Worth Having IMO (unless that Alto 12" coaxial stage monitor is cheaper). They sound okay and I rent out a single one with a 21" sub for house party use. I know they rag it. Comes back fine every time.
They don't put out much bass. They'll do background music just fine, but I wouldn't expect people to dance much. They'll need subwoofers, and the sooner the better.

Chris

[Scott Olewiler]

Did Joseph somewhere along the way state what he was planning to use these for? I see DJ referenced in responses but I'm not seeing that  in any  of his posts?

I find it interesting that DJs get the greatest return on their investment, since they have so little gear to buy in the first place but are the most reluctant to buy quality gear.  Would not a $350 investment pay for itself in a gig or two even for someone just  starting out?

If he can manage to get thru a half dozen gigs or so he surely would have enough money saved up to buy decent speakers, but yet his business plan is for the $350 speakers to last forever. That is not long term sustainable business model.

Joseph,

If you're serious about whatever it is you plan to do with these speakers you need to treat it like a real business.

Here is what is going to happen if you continue down your current path:

 You will have failures during paid gigs and will have no way to recover.  Then you will have to struggle twice as hard to rebuild your reputation. Plus, by using mediocre performing equipment ;you will hold yourself at the lowest pay level, perhaps indefinitely.


If you really are limited to $350 right now, scour craigslist for used speakers. If you find what looks to be a good deal, post on the forum for opinions. There will be no shortage of them, and in the future you will be grateful you asked for them.

As soon as you start working with your "cheap" speakers and are making money, put as much money back as possible to buy decent gear and BACKUP gear.  High quality gear not only sounds better and in theory should also break down less, but without a plan in place to handle potential break downs you will inevitably be facing an upset client because you have not prepared properly for potential gear problems.

Properly prepared does not mean the gig temporarily shuts down while you repair a piece of equipment. Properly prepared means you grab a spare piece of gear, swap it in and the gig goes on, with minimal downtime.

I have not DJ'd in a long time but on the rare occasion I do, I carry a spare mixer, a spare laptop w/a duplicate hard drive and spare speakers. Literally an entire second system.

"Oh, it seems this speaker is not working properly, I'll grab another from the trailer" is much easier for the client to take than "We'll just have to do the rest of the night with only one speaker, sorry about that."

You will not create a successful business by only doing the minimum required.

Final thought since you are new here: The people here giving you advice are not just trying to put you down, or show off how much they know. Most of the people here have made some poor decisions along the way are are truly trying to stop you from making the same ones.

[Joseph Amodeo]

sorry, if my punctuation is sloppy, i am typing with one finger on a surface pro 4.... very tedious... trying to keep up... some can see the point others absolutely cant, i am more than willing to take advice and not just look for confirmation of what i want to hearnand of the idea of me getting cheap gear... although in the same breath i do believe the point of properly using said cheap gear i apparently shouldnt get was brought up... (her we go)

at this point with the prospect of getting subs... i probably dont need something with loud lows... not sure if this is a size thing, or otherwise but i do know i need something with more loudness and clarity in the mids and highs... if i find 1 prosumer speaker for a good price with these characteristics (what would that be) id pull the trigger...
t
ebay has mackie srm 357s for 350\pair... youre telling me this is utter crap? i thought these were widely considered solid beginner speakers hated by zomemloved by others... but certainly is it just me or is there a difference between $400 eons, srm450s etc... and 100 behringers... or am i wrong on this distinction

when i asked a pretty professional band at a larger venue yesterday the sound guy was like BUY EONS... 

 at this point though im pretty sure i need something with better highs and mids, im raising my standards a little but with less power/loudness? due to eventual subs...

[Bradford "BJ" James]

RENT

[Joseph Amodeo]

ive got it narrowed down between jbl psr series, qsc k series, yamaha dsr series,

apparently psr holds up better than qsc k when pushed... yamaha dsr are also apparently better speakers than k series...

ultimatwly what has the most clarity and less corners cut on mids and highs as opposed to bass (since im getting a sub)

furthermore what will sound less muddy when pushed to the max level its designed to go factoring in headroom etc...  (whatever the pros define this level as)


could i get away with k8 with a sub? or no

[Debbie Dunkley]

Hot damn, I sure missed some fun today!!

And even more today it seems Ray!...

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