ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?  (Read 13216 times)

Scott Helmke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2253
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2017, 06:07:23 PM »

I use stereo on corporate gigs only because I may want to pan a mic like the podium mic away from a close speaker.

That's the only time I want stereo. Especially if there's a free-range CEO roaming the stage with a lav mic - that's when the panpot gets a workout.
Logged

Caleb Dueck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1695
  • Sierra Vista, AZ
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2017, 08:59:33 PM »

I'm not a fan of stereo, from an installed system design perspective.  Most "stereo" is multiple semi-overlapping separate mixes.  Either exploded mono, or true LCR (if the room can even support it) work the best. 

The big issue on larger systems is getting even SPL from both clusters/hangs at every seat.  The larger issue is keeping the relative time arrivals close enough for a stereo image, rather than simply multiple directionality. 

The best possible, for a straight faced stage, is discrete clusters every 10' or so.  Each instrument or voice is routed to a single cluster.  This preserves the time aspect, keeps intelligibility high, and allows the FOH tech to "space" everything out spatially better than 2-speaker stereo can.  It just costs an insane amount, and the ceiling often won't hold it! 

Between true LCR and well designed mono - stereo just doesn't bring anything better to the table. 

Dual zone mono, such as most ground stacked small systems, is good enough for rock and roll as it allows for panning away from open wandering mics and actual stereo sources (keys, pre-recorded tracks, etc).

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Logged
Experience is something you get right after you need it.

John J.R. Bogle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2017, 10:17:46 PM »

Stereo for me as I run a band with a Leslie cabinet and other bands are running tracks or samples in stereo.
I pan lesli top mics as well. Slightly OT but it's funny how we try and get a L-R from a lesli but in the end, as soon as you put mics on it, the sonic impression is ruined. The Lesli uses the reflections of the room to give that spacious effect. Your ears/brain pick up on the aural cues from the room (sonic space) you're in to realize that authentic lesli sound. A pair of mic's panned never can do that (I suppose a bineural setup in an isolated room - the same room you did the other tracks in on a different date might come close :).

Back On Topic. Just like the previous posts, depending on the room (especially a highly reflective one where everything mushes together), I'll pan some instruments a small amount to give some distinction to them in the mix. I also will pan to keep FOH feedback from occurring. Another trick is to pan a quiet singer to the opposite side so that they will hit the mic harder. In live sound I almost never hard pan single channel sources (sometimes effects, keys and the like). Doing this deprives half of your audience from hearing some instruments. Live sound is always a tradeoff.
Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2017, 01:32:25 AM »

I pan lesli top mics as well. Slightly OT but it's funny how we try and get a L-R from a lesli but in the end, as soon as you put mics on it, the sonic impression is ruined. The Lesli uses the reflections of the room to give that spacious effect. Your ears/brain pick up on the aural cues from the room (sonic space) you're in to realize that authentic lesli sound. A pair of mic's panned never can do that (I suppose a bineural setup in an isolated room - the same room you did the other tracks in on a different date might come close :).
Can you imagine if someone succeeded in turning the stage into a giant swirling Leslie?  Vertigo city.

When I record Leslies I put one mic in the middle of the open side and another 90 degrees out on an adjacent side.  If I can I back it against a wall so that sound doesn't escape out the side opposite the open one.  More reflections in the box.  Then pan to 9:00-3:00.  This gives a nice spacious sound without too much pulling your head back and forth.  Live, it's one mic in the open face pointed at the back of the cabinet.  Again maximum reflections.  Only one horn in a Leslie has any sound coming out of it.  The other is a counterweight.  So getting reflections off the inside of the cabinet gives the timbre shift effect with less level bouncing up and down.
Logged

Merlijn van Veen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
    • www.merlijnvanveen.nl
Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2017, 01:52:30 AM »

We all know about the "sweet spot" that our home or studio monitors produce where stereo can truly be appreciated.  I have been told that in a large venue, the "sweet spot" is very small, maybe only a few seats.  I haven't proven that, but I do know it isn't anywhere close to 1/3 of the audience.  Maybe 10%!

I think this article by Bob McCarthy will confirm your experiences.



Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2017, 03:47:53 AM »

I don't do mono, neither do I do true stereo.

I will generally run fills in mono(side/front/down) and mains I will setup stereo and never pan more than like 10%, so basically mono. Generally find that it doesn't adversely effect the audience and gets a little cleaner mix.
Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Steve Loewenthal

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 300
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2017, 10:50:18 AM »

I think this article by Bob McCarthy will confirm your experiences.

Great article.
Based on the article, I guess I can allow stereo in my home system for more than just 1 listener.
Logged
Steve Loewenthal

"I'm, just the guy in a band that owns the PA and I'm trying to figure out how it works. (Been trying to learn somethin' about it for about 20 years and I hope somethin' learns me soon)"

Hyam Sosnow

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2017, 08:46:52 PM »

When stereo (officially called "auditory perspective" at the time) was successfully demonstrated by Bell Labs in April of 1933 they used 4 mics (L, R and 2 center mics mixed to a single channel), 3 electrical channels and 3 loudspeakers. A live performance of the Philadelphia Symphony Orchestra in the Academy of Science Hall in Philadelphia was transmitted (via wires) to Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C., where an audience heard the performance in real-time through a 3-channel/3 loudspeaker reproduction system that was controlled in the venue by conductor Leopold Stokowski. Constitution Hall seats approximately 3,700 and is nearly one million cubic feet in volume. The audience present heard the concert in auditory perspective that was analogous to what they would have heard from a live orchestra performing in that hall without an intervening audio reproduction system.

In short, it is indeed possible to create life-like stereo reproduction that can be experienced by a large audience in a large space, but both ends of the system need to be assembled with that purpose in mind — simply broadcasting a multi-mic'd stage via pan pots into a 2-channel speaker system with L/R elements will only achieve some semblance of auditory perspective for those few people who happen to be sitting in the "money seats" along the center line a certain distance from the speaker arrays.

Those interested in the original Bell Labs experiment can find their collected IEEE papers (for free) here: www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/bell.labs/auditoryperspective.pdf. I still marvel at the audaciousness of this experiment, especially considering that electronic sound transmission and reproduction were barely 12 years old at the time.
Logged

Michael Lascuola

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
    • WoodlawnSound.com
Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »

I think this article by Bob McCarthy will confirm your experiences.

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk

”This system has such magic qualities that it’s capable of creating perfect mono imaging in every seat.”

I might have to steal that line :D
Logged
Colorado Springs, CO

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Stereo vs Mono - who REALLY is running pure Mono?
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »


Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 19 queries.