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Author Topic: AES splitters  (Read 1346 times)

Mike Caldwell

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AES splitters
« on: July 16, 2017, 01:20:58 am »

If you are splitting an AES signal what are you using in the way of a splitter.

My application would be splitting the AES out of my Allen Heath QU so I can feed two DBX Venue 360's. Cable runs are short, maybe 10 feet at the most and using 110 ohm cable.
It's working great into a single 360.

Thanks
Mike C.

MikeHarris

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 04:21:16 am »

I was unaware you could split AES...usually recommend a AES distribution amp but it appears Whirlwind has a passive box to do just that.
http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/splitters-boxes/aes-sp1x2
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Helge Dr. Bentsen

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 05:02:30 am »

I was unaware you could split AES...usually recommend a AES distribution amp but it appears Whirlwind has a passive box to do just that.
http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/splitters-boxes/aes-sp1x2

IIRC you can split AES with a transformer just like Whirlwind has done.
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Jason Raboin

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 07:17:10 am »

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Lee Buckalew

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 09:03:27 am »

If you are splitting an AES signal what are you using in the way of a splitter.

My application would be splitting the AES out of my Allen Heath QU so I can feed two DBX Venue 360's. Cable runs are short, maybe 10 feet at the most and using 110 ohm cable.
It's working great into a single 360.

Thanks
Mike C.

We have used Energy Transfer Systems (ETS) PA 830 for some very high profile recording applications where we have not experienced any problems (1 Grammy, another nomination).

We also use the RB-AES4X3 Quad 3 Way AES/EBU Splitter in large stadium applications (NFL) with no issues as long as you maintain the maximum overall cable length as laid out in the manual. 

I have not utilized others but a good transformer split should do what you are looking for.

Lee
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Peter Morris

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 10:12:30 am »

These work...

http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=SES-AES-EBU-Y-6&SES-AES-EBU-Y-6

I have used the same thing on a couple of Lake Contour's ... simple and cheap.  I suspect you don't even need the transformer just a "Y" if the processor's are located in the same rack and the cable runs are not too long.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 10:17:55 am by Peter Morris »
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 05:16:52 pm »

Thanks for the info, I had already looked into the Whirlwind and Sescom pieces, I'll check out the other mentioned splitters as well.


Mike C.

Mac Kerr

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 06:35:07 pm »

I have used the same thing on a couple of Lake Contour's ... simple and cheap.  I suspect you don't even need the transformer just a "Y" if the processor's are located in the same rack and the cable runs are not too long.

That may work, but AES digital audio is very high frequency so operates more as a transmission line, which is susceptible to impedance mismatches and their inherent reflections much more than baseband audio.

Mac
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Peter Morris

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 08:36:12 pm »

That may work, but AES digital audio is very high frequency so operates more as a transmission line, which is susceptible to impedance mismatches and their inherent reflections much more than baseband audio.

Mac

Yes absolutely - when the cable run is short the dominant impedance becomes the terminating resistance in the receiver, in my case the Lake.  Its my understanding that Lake have made this switchable so the terminating impedance can be switched off allowing cascading of devices with the last device in the chain having the terminating impedance switched on.

As I understand the original AES/EBU specification (AES3-1985) called for a single transmitter to drive up to three receivers, but it was problematic and changed in 1992 to advise that a single transmitter should drive only a single receiver  .... so I think in simple situations it may work, it only has to go 10ft in this case.

I have on occasions with the Lake accidentally left both terminations switched on, and it worked .... BUT ... the cable runs were short and I may have just been lucky  :)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:37:56 am by Peter Morris »
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 09:52:46 pm »

Not trying to say anything other than it appears to work at 48kHz with some boxes I've been playing with.....
Two 6 inch Y cables, cascaded to make a 1 to 3 split....
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Chuck Fudge

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 09:57:31 am »

http://www.atiaudio.com/ViewProduct.aspx?CurPage=DDA106-XLR

I have used this product in a system to distribute from AVID stage rack AES/EBU output card to multiple AES/EBU processor inputs.  Had no problems.

Chuck
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Doug Moran

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 12:43:32 pm »

i have used a couple of these for years.  Rock solid.

http://www.henryeng.com/hedigimatch.html

Doug
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Samuel Rees

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 03:27:57 pm »

I was unaware you could split AES...usually recommend a AES distribution amp but it appears Whirlwind has a passive box to do just that.
http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/splitters-boxes/aes-sp1x2

My friend has a small powered fulcrum acoustics PA and uses these. One AES cable goes to each stack and hits this splitter which has one out labeled sub and one labeled top. Super slick and has been totally reliable.
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Frank Koenig

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 04:34:31 pm »

To give a little background, for what it's worth, AES3 is a balanced 110 Ohm simplex (one-way) system. It expects a 110 Ohm source impedance driving a transmission line of 110 Ohm characteristic impedance that is terminated in a receiver that presents a 110 Ohm load. The edge rates are modest by modern digital communication standards and AES3 is quite tolerant of imperfect conditions. As a result AES3 may be split among any number of daisy-chained receivers (within reason) so long as each but the last has a high, say > 10 kOhm, input impedance. The last in the chain, of course, needs to terminate the line in 110 Ohms, to avoid reflections. I've seen gear (don't remember where) that lets you lift the terminators on the AES inputs to do just such daisy-chaining.

Also, for what it's worth, attached is the circuit for a little AES3 distribution box that I built. It's been running continuously for about 7 years with no problems. Its input is configured for coaxial S/PDIF (the consumer unbalanced standard) but it could easily be reconfigured for proper AES3.

Best,

--Frank

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Peter Morris

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 07:58:42 pm »

To give a little background, for what it's worth, AES3 is a balanced 110 Ohm simplex (one-way) system. It expects a 110 Ohm source impedance driving a transmission line of 110 Ohm characteristic impedance that is terminated in a receiver that presents a 110 Ohm load. The edge rates are modest by modern digital communication standards and AES3 is quite tolerant of imperfect conditions. As a result AES3 may be split among any number of daisy-chained receivers (within reason) so long as each but the last has a high, say > 10 kOhm, input impedance. The last in the chain, of course, needs to terminate the line in 110 Ohms, to avoid reflections. I've seen gear (don't remember where) that lets you lift the terminators on the AES inputs to do just such daisy-chaining.

Also, for what it's worth, attached is the circuit for a little AES3 distribution box that I built. It's been running continuously for about 7 years with no problems. Its input is configured for coaxial S/PDIF (the consumer unbalanced standard) but it could easily be reconfigured for proper AES3.

Best,

--Frank



Lake do this ...
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: AES splitters
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 08:35:07 pm »

Lake do this ...

I guess I could always just up my game and change over to Lake DSP's and forego the need for a splitter!!!! But then again how many splitters could I buy for the cost of two Lake DSP's!
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