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Author Topic: powered speakers/condenser mics  (Read 1623 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 01:19:16 pm »

Listen to Dick Rees. He's been a solo performer AND a sound guy with broadcast quality mixing chops.

Your problems are too many open mics and shittty Harbinger speakers.  Your AT condensers are adequate.  I've never used an MXL live so have no opinion of them.

Scott B is incorrect that condenser mics are more prone to feedback simply because they are not dynamic mics.  I put up a stage full of condenser mics without undue issues.

Ever model of mic is different and the suitability of a given model for the task is much more important that the transducer technology.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Steve Crump

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 01:59:18 pm »

Listen to Dick Rees. He's been a solo performer AND a sound guy with broadcast quality mixing chops.

Your problems are too many open mics and shittty Harbinger speakers.  Your AT condensers are adequate.  I've never used an MXL live so have no opinion of them.

Scott B is incorrect that condenser mics are more prone to feedback simply because they are not dynamic mics.  I put up a stage full of condenser mics without undue issues.

Ever model of mic is different and the suitability of a given model for the task is much more important that the transducer technology.


I am still curious if Bob is a solo performer. He hasn't really said. As far as the AT, I worked for several months helping a Bluegrass venue and their MO was to put a AT center stage and something like a 57 or condenser like the 81 at the acoustic guitar and banjo level and maybe on the stand up bass a foam wrapped 57 (if the bass didn't have pick ups). The vocals and fiddle would just move around the AT for solos and it worked great. I came to find out the in our area the AT is widely used as a center piece in Bluegrass and is considered a "go to" much like the 58 is to other types of music.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 05:12:00 pm »


I am still curious if Bob is a solo performer. He hasn't really said. As far as the AT, I worked for several months helping a Bluegrass venue and their MO was to put a AT center stage and something like a 57 or condenser like the 81 at the acoustic guitar and banjo level and maybe on the stand up bass a foam wrapped 57 (if the bass didn't have pick ups). The vocals and fiddle would just move around the AT for solos and it worked great. I came to find out the in our area the AT is widely used as a center piece in Bluegrass and is considered a "go to" much like the 58 is to other types of music.

I do whatever the players want, from single LDC to LDC +solo mics, or a vox and instrument mic for each player.   And I've done all the above with sequential acts with 5 min change overs.

There are multiple things that could be sole or contributory factors for Bob's feedback, and I'm pretty sure that his comparison of using playback as a level comparison to a live mix holds clues about the available technical prowess.

His speaker system is not his friend and I suspect some operational difficulties.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Sammy Barr

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 05:51:48 pm »

EQ will help the situation. Peavey makes an eq with led lights that respond
To feedback frequencies. Also positioning main speakers as far from microphones as possible facing away. You can roll off some low frequencies on the mixer channel. Try adding one microphone at a time to the mix. Sometimes moving a microphone a few inches can make a difference. As others have alluded the harbinger speaker is better suited for recorded playback so even with equalization and  proper placement of speakers and microphones, the end result may not meet your expectations. I would suggest saving for some 10 or 12" powered speakers of better quality. QSC, Yamaha or EV are good places to start. You tube has many good videos on ringing out sound systems and this forum has a wealth  of information in the archives. Good Luck, don't get discouraged.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 05:57:38 pm by Sammy Barr »
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Mal Brown

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2017, 11:03:05 am »

Out of the gate - mic's, mains, monitors don't matter...  Developing a proper method for righting them out does.  If you don't have the method - find someone who does and learn from them.  I had a mentor - you probably need one.  There is a cost to education and a cost to not having it.  Find the best sound co in your area and trade labor for education. 

You will need eq and some form of RTA.  You can use something as simple as an aold Peavey 31 band with FLS and an iPhone with an RTA app.  Many of us on this site  moved to digital and tables years ago as that stuff is baked into most of the low end digital boards out there.


Sounds like a traditional blue grass quartet setup to me.  Probably you don't neeed AC/DC tribute band volume ...   

Speakers high, tipped down with little toe in.  Spaced well out to the side and slightly forward.

I don't know your mic's but what works nicely for grass is a pair of large diaphragm condensers that have a hyper-cardioid pattern.  Split them by about 6 feet, maybe 8. They should be on straight stands. 

Add a pair of small diaphragm condensers also on straight stands at waist level.  1 should be a side clip on the centered LDC.

Bass should be using something like a David Gage Realist or a really cool condenser designed to nestle into the strings just behind the bridge, pointing to the body.

The idea is for the lead vocal and his instrument to be on the center mic.  Backing vocals cluster on him or the other LDC.  The other LDC supports a lead instrument mando or banjo when at waist level, fiddle when pulled up - which is why a straight stand...

The second SDC supports banjo, mando, guitar as a dedicated position.

Chatham County Line at my Saturday evening gig. 

https://www.facebook.com/GorgeSoundandLight/posts/1402870169796556

Mic's are Ear Trumpets and Neumann km-184's... belong to the band.  I wish...

« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 10:12:49 pm by Mal Brown »
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bob simon

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 12:32:38 pm »

Thanks for all the info y'all. This is a setup for a 5-6 member bluegrass, rockgrass type band. We have 48v phantom power and 3 condensers. i'm just not getting the volume from the Harbingers i want for mostly outdoor acoustic venues. I am EQing from the Beringer zenyx unpowered board and from the high/low mix on the speakers. still  getting feed without the volume i want.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2017, 01:04:07 pm »

Thanks for all the info y'all. This is a setup for a 5-6 member bluegrass, rockgrass type band. We have 48v phantom power and 3 condensers. i'm just not getting the volume from the Harbingers i want for mostly outdoor acoustic venues. I am EQing from the Beringer zenyx unpowered board and from the high/low mix on the speakers. still  getting feed without the volume i want.

So based on the replies, what is your action plan to correct it?

Your reply doesn't seem to indicate you understand what corrective actions might work.
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dick rees

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2017, 01:28:02 pm »

Thanks for all the info y'all. This is a setup for a 5-6 member bluegrass, rockgrass type band. We have 48v phantom power and 3 condensers. i'm just not getting the volume from the Harbingers i want for mostly outdoor acoustic venues. I am EQing from the Beringer zenyx unpowered board and from the high/low mix on the speakers. still  getting feed without the volume i want.

Honestly?

Those speakers are inadequate for even modesr INDOOR sound.  For outdoor sound the best use for them would llikely be for a little extra heat from the campfire after sundown...
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Mal Brown

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 01:29:41 pm »

If you are actually rock'grass, not bluegrass- your answer is lose the condensers buy a brace of dynamic vocal mic's and piezo pickups- dynamic mic's for the instruments.

Traditional 'grass players like Chatham County Line from my post above know how to make the condensers work and everybody understands what the volume limitations are.  My experience with 'new grassers is quite the opposite.  In reality it's a rock band with acoustic instruments
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Rob Spence

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Re: powered speakers/condenser mics
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 01:39:46 pm »

If outside, you should be able to move the mains plenty away from the performers.
Remember, the people right in front are going to hear the direct sound so the PA is for folk further back.

Outdoors you don't have sidewalls to worry about. Aim the speakers pretty much straight out. As said by others, get them well off to the side and a few feet in front of the front of the stage.

If you still can't get it loud enough or still have feedback then you need better mains speakers.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 01:49:30 pm by Rob Spence »
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