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Author Topic: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?  (Read 1095 times)

Tim Weaver

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I'm talking about these guys:


If you are permenantly hanging a single fixture (leko, fresnel, par type) on a beam what is the best practice? Use one of these guys and a safety around the beam? Or is there another option?
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James Feenstra

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 12:13:25 pm »

these beam clamps are typically rated for ~300lbs, have used them for installing light fixtures (light as in weight, ~20lbs or so per fixture) permanently with threaded rod/locking washers/etc in the past. All rated components.

If done properly I don't see this being a problem as they're well overengineered for the task and being used in the application they were designed
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 12:24:00 pm »

We use them with our worries.  I would still ensure you have a safety.  Especially because in high vibration environments I have seen these shift very slightly....


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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 12:48:19 pm »

I would be nervous using them on a tapered beam surface, unless there was a consistent (and documented) inspection process. I would not be particularly concerned if clamped to relatively flat surface.

I've seen a venue that uses pairs of those, 1/8" cable (randomly and incorrectly clamped), to hang 100# MI grade speakers by their handles over a stage. It scares the willies out of me. The venue doesn't care. I don't do any work there, and am uncomfortable even as a audience member there.

Edit:  And of course, a safety cable around the beam. It goes without saying, but I didn't expressly say so.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 12:46:44 am by Mark Cadwallader »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 12:52:42 pm »

I would be nervous using them on a tapered beam surface, unless there was a consistent (and documented) inspection process. I would not be particularly concerned if clamped to relatively flat surface.

I've seen a venue that uses pairs of those, 1/8" cable (randomly and incorrectly clamped), to hang 100# MI grade speakers by their handles over a stage. It scares the willies out of me. The venue doesn't care. I don't do any work there, and am uncomfortable even as a audience member there.


We have flat beam "I's" here. This will let me place 4 Ellipsoidals in startegic places to shoot around house lights.

Thanks ya'll
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 10:20:20 pm »

I'm talking about these guys:


If you are permenantly hanging a single fixture (leko, fresnel, par type) on a beam what is the best practice? Use one of these guys and a safety around the beam? Or is there another option?

What could possibly go wrong?  ::)

Drill and bolt in place for me. Might be harder but it's safer
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BrianHenry

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Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 10:44:51 pm »

Drilling a structural beam without consulting an engineer or at least the manufacturer's guidelines for the product can potentially transfer a great of risk to you. Also, drilling the flange of the beam is far less commonplace than drilling the web.

Beam clamp and safety wire.


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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 11:21:16 pm »

Drilling a structural beam without consulting an engineer or at least the manufacturer's guidelines for the product can potentially transfer a great of risk to you. Also, drilling the flange of the beam is far less commonplace than drilling the web.

Beam clamp and safety wire.


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Really?

A 3/8" hole drilled in a red iron bean will effect the structural integrity of the beam? Please.
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 11:31:13 pm »

If the beam ever fails, the guy who drilled the hole will be responsible whether the hole caused the failure or not - unless he has a couple hundred thousand to pay good lawyers and the right consulting engineer expert witness.
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BrianHenry

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Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 11:58:24 pm »

Really?

A 3/8" hole drilled in a red iron bean will effect the structural integrity of the beam? Please.

I chose my words carefully. I said transfer of risk, not that it would fail.

Unfortunately my proofreading leaves something to be desired as I did leave a word out by accident lol

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« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:06:10 am by BrianHenry »
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2017, 12:06:42 am »

I chose my words carefully. I said transfer of risk, not that it would fail.

Unfortunately I did leave a word out by accident lol

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Better call a structural engineer to see if those red iron beams will carry the load from the lighting fixtures.  ;)
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BrianHenry

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2017, 12:30:09 am »

Better call a structural engineer to see if those red iron beams will carry the load from the lighting fixtures.  ;)

Well now that you mention it... ;)


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duane massey

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2017, 01:10:24 am »

Used to drill holes (many years ago) until the liability issue was pointed out. My only issue with beam clamps (and a minor one) came from seeing a plumber over-torque one and break it in half. However, considering some of the many far worse practices I have seen in THIS area, beam clamps are my first choice, with safety cables.
HOWEVER, I have seen several installs where the safety cable was attached TO the beam clamp.......
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2017, 01:26:23 am »

If you're scared to drill a hole, at least use one of these.
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John Fruits

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 05:19:10 am »

There are also the rated purlin clamps.
http://www.thelightsource.com/products/112/view
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James Feenstra

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2017, 10:48:41 am »

What could possibly go wrong?  ::)

Drill and bolt in place for me. Might be harder but it's safer
why would you drill anything to use this style of beam clamp? they are not designed to be attached through holes
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Steve Kosiba

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 06:39:39 pm »

These type of beam clamps, when the proper clamp is used for the proper beam and load limits are adhered to, are perfectly fine for permanently mounting static fixtures (ellipsoidals/PARs/&c).  For moving lights, however, I'd want a more proper clamp that grabs both sides of the beam.  As always make sure to use safety cables, and in this case wrap it around the entire beam.  Sometimes this means getting longer safety cables.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2017, 08:01:22 pm »

Drilling a hole probably won't cause problems from the weight of the fixture, but when there is a ton of wet snow on the roof, that stress riser could be fatal.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2017, 08:54:31 pm »

There are also the rated purlin clamps.
http://www.thelightsource.com/products/112/view

The last time I asked for an engineer's opinion on loads from a purlin, the drawing I was given only allowed loads to be attached to purlins via an angle bracket tek screwed to the vertical portion of the purlin- nothing was to be attached to the horizontal flange.

Honestly, I think that was purely to shift liability, as I don't know that I've seen an install done that way.
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BrianHenry

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Re: Whats our feeling on (conduit) beam clamps for permenant hanging?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2017, 09:13:29 pm »

Purlins are different from the I beams pictured above. Z purlins for example are rarely rated for loads above and beyond the live+dead roof loads. Also z purlins will easily deform under additional point loads. This doesn't mean they won't support a few fixtures but there is more than insignificant risk when dealing with some purlins.


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