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Author Topic: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?  (Read 1685 times)

Tim Weaver

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So I'm looking at doing away with our projectors and replacing them with a direct view display. The space I have available holds our 12' wide projection screens pretty comfortably. I could probably go 13.5' wide at the largest and around 8' tall if needed, but the width is the dimension I'm trying to fill. I would want at least 12' wide.

So at this size which technology is the most cost-effective? A TV array or LED wall? My closest viewers are pretty close. Like 20' away. Farthest viewer is 100' ish. Indoors, and I have some lighting spill to worry about but no direct sunlight hits the display area. I will also say that we are going 4k in the future so if it supports that it will be a bonus.

Teach an audio dog about big displays!
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 11:08:43 am »

How much money do you have?  Small pitch (the distance between pixels) displays are expensive.  2.5mm pitch is about right to not be visible at 20'. But that's barely more than 720p at 12'.  4K is about a 1mm pitch.  That's real expensive....  I mean really really expensive. 


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Keith Broughton

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 11:22:28 am »

So I'm looking at doing away with our projectors and replacing them with a direct view display. The space I have available holds our 12' wide projection screens pretty comfortably. I could probably go 13.5' wide at the largest and around 8' tall if needed, but the width is the dimension I'm trying to fill. I would want at least 12' wide.

So at this size which technology is the most cost-effective? A TV array or LED wall? My closest viewers are pretty close. Like 20' away. Farthest viewer is 100' ish. Indoors, and I have some lighting spill to worry about but no direct sunlight hits the display area. I will also say that we are going 4k in the future so if it supports that it will be a bonus.

Teach an audio dog about big displays!
Why are you getting away from the projectors?
As noted, good LED displays are costly and if you are in doors, you don't need the brightness available on LEDs.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 11:23:08 am »

We're not cheap, but we're not going to spend 40k per display (I need 2) for this either. I'm hoping to add this in to a proposal for new front wash lighting. Our current geometry means that there will be some spill onto the displays if we are lighting things properly. So right now, I can either have a good looking projection screen, or a well-lit stage, but not both at the same time :-/


I'll be quick to give up 4K if I need to. What I want is direct view first, 12' width 2nd, and everything else 3rd....
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Tim Weaver

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 11:24:02 am »

Why are you getting away from the projectors?
As noted, good LED displays are costly and if you are in doors, you don't need the brightness available on LEDs.

Because of the geometry of our room. Also the projectors are waaaay up in the air and we don't own a man lift.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 12:46:19 pm »

Because of the geometry of our room. Also the projectors are waaaay up in the air and we don't own a man lift.
I gather this is an installed system. I see your point.
LED displays are more forgiving to light spill from FOH lighting.
I have done gigs with both high powered projectors and fairly good resolution LEDs (at the same time)and the LEDS simply don't render test as clearly as the projectors.
That said, the LEDs can look good but the finer the resolution, the faster the cost goes up.
20' is pretty close to be sitting to even a 4 mil LED display.
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Erik Jerde

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 09:05:02 am »

LED wall is going to be rediculously expensive to do 4K.  Regardless of resolution it will be seamless.  TV array can be nearly seamless and very high resolution but also very expensive.  I think the quote I had from Planar was around 80K for a 1x6 wall using 50" panels.

Either system uses a processor to take in a signal and scale it for the wall resolution and do any other signal processing or splitting.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2017, 05:31:58 pm »

You could probably put 20k projectors on each screen and still have $$$ left over before you could put videowall in there.


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Sean Mormelo

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I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 12:14:27 am »

We were faced with the same dilemma and we ended up with 65 inch screens three across right and 2 . But we're adding three more across the top. It's almost 16 feet across and right now over 5 feet wide but it will be about 15 1/2 x 8 1/2 when we add three more TVs on the top. Here it is before we added the 6th TV..


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« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 01:21:27 am by Sean Mormelo »
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Rob Spence

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 12:23:14 am »

We were faced with the same dilemma and we ended up with 65 inch screens three across in right now to down. But we're adding three more to the top. It's almost 16 feet across and right now over 5 feet wide but it will be about 15 1/2 x 8 1/2 when we add three more TVs on the top.heee it is before we added the 6th TV..


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That made little sense. Try again.


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Sean Mormelo

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 01:21:45 am »

That made little sense. Try again.


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Damn IPhone. Fixed


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Scott Holtzman

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 02:15:38 am »

Damn IPhone. Fixed


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It is?  Wide and across mean the same thing. 

5 1'2 feet tall doesn't fit 16:9 aspect ratio. Are you scaling? 
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Sean Mormelo

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 11:01:56 pm »

It is?  Wide and across mean the same thing. 

5 1'2 feet tall doesn't fit 16:9 aspect ratio. Are you scaling?

If you are looking at my screens it's just under 16' wide and from top to bottom in height it's 5.5'

Yes we are 16:9 and when we add 3 more TVs in a row on top we will have a 3X3 config that will fit 16:9. Right now the bottom is cut off obviously


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Tim Padrick

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 11:27:10 pm »

Those lines would drive me nuts.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 11:49:12 pm »

Have you checked out Black Diamond screens?

http://www.screeninnovations.com/
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:14:01 am by Jamin Lynch »
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Scott Hofmann

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2017, 11:58:23 pm »

We were faced with the same dilemma and we ended up with 65 inch screens three across right and 2 . But we're adding three more across the top. It's almost 16 feet across and right now over 5 feet wide but it will be about 15 1/2 x 8 1/2 when we add three more TVs on the top. Here it is before we added the 6th TV..


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Really neat. Several questions if you don't mind:
What device/software are you using to split up the image? Also, what kind of structure supports the TV's and is it ground-supported or flown? What budget did you have?
Thanks for any info you can share!
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Sean Mormelo

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I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 04:31:50 am »

Really neat. Several questions if you don't mind:
What device/software are you using to split up the image? Also, what kind of structure supports the TV's and is it ground-supported or flown? What budget did you have?
Thanks for any info you can share!

It's a hardware box Scaler we got in eBay. Works PERFECTLY. $1100
https://www.ebay.com/itm/272279793393

The TVs are 50lbs each and are mounted 2 each, on three 2.5m Global Truss sections with steel bases with Global Truss Plasma mounts screwed into the back of each TV then mounted to the truss. We plan to add 3 more TVs on to so we'll buy 3 more 1m sections and the widest bases they make at that time. Keep in mind even 3 TV's a Truss totem is only 150lbs. That's nothing for the Truss to bear.

Budget-wise for a screen as large as we wanted we looked at projection but decided to go TV as LED screens were out of our initial budget. I think the TVs, Truss, and plasma mounts were about $6K. We have another TV and Mount coming so that will bring us in around $7K. The Scaler box was $1100 plus a few hundred in HDMI-Cat5e adapters to run from computer to the scaler then some HDMI cable from the box to computer. Right now we could get about 5.5' X 3.5 LED screen for that. TVs were a no brainer and look great! The Bezels are not the big distraction you think looking at a picture. After a couple of min your brain fills in the space.


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brian maddox

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 04:03:49 pm »

It's a hardware box Scaler we got in eBay. Works PERFECTLY. $1100
https://www.ebay.com/itm/272279793393

The TVs are 50lbs each and are mounted 2 each, on three 2.5m Global Truss sections with steel bases with Global Truss Plasma mounts screwed into the back of each TV then mounted to the truss. We plan to add 3 more TVs on to so we'll buy 3 more 1m sections and the widest bases they make at that time. Keep in mind even 3 TV's a Truss totem is only 150lbs. That's nothing for the Truss to bear.

Budget-wise for a screen as large as we wanted we looked at projection but decided to go TV as LED screens were out of our initial budget. I think the TVs, Truss, and plasma mounts were about $6K. We have another TV and Mount coming so that will bring us in around $7K. The Scaler box was $1100 plus a few hundred in HDMI-Cat5e adapters to run from computer to the scaler then some HDMI cable from the box to computer. Right now we could get about 5.5' X 3.5 LED screen for that. TVs were a no brainer and look great! The Bezels are not the big distraction you think looking at a picture. After a couple of min your brain fills in the space.


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Sounds like you found a great solution for your application.  And yeah, back in the olden days all the really big displays had lines in them, so that's not really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

Just a note to anyone else that might try this.  The combination of the scaling box and the consumer grade TVs is gonna cause a significant amount of latency.  So long as you're just using it as a backdrop or whatever, this latency is a non-issue.  But if you attempt to do any sort of live camera IMAG on a screen like this, you're gonna have a bad time.

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Sean Mormelo

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Re: I need a 12' wide display. Whats better, TV array or LED panels?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 05:43:37 pm »

Sounds like you found a great solution for your application.  And yeah, back in the olden days all the really big displays had lines in them, so that's not really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

Just a note to anyone else that might try this.  The combination of the scaling box and the consumer grade TVs is gonna cause a significant amount of latency.  So long as you're just using it as a backdrop or whatever, this latency is a non-issue.  But if you attempt to do any sort of live camera IMAG on a screen like this, you're gonna have a bad time.

No that's not the case at all. we ARE using live cameras with a wifi utility called AIRBEAM. You download the app on the mac that is controlling your video program. In this case we are using VDMX. VDMX sees it and creates a Syphon Server and you brings the feeds from each IOS device (we are using iPhones as live video cameras on stage) and an operator can mix in the live feeds or you can have MIDI switch them in where ever you want etc. There is latency but NO MORE than I have seen with recent big acts I have seen such as Journey. This is a really great solution on a budget. You can get iPhone 5's for $100 on eBay, connect them to your wifi network and feed them in. We have connected a bunch so far and it's great.
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