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Author Topic: modified speaker maybe needing delay modification between compression and woofer  (Read 4659 times)

Jeff Bankston

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Get an Ashly XR1001 electronic crossover, a small watt amp for the horns and Bi-amp the system. You can set the crossover knob at 1.5k and slowly rotate it back and forth from 1k-2k and listen for the point that sounds best. Have a few other music people there to give their input. Dont play it loud, use a good clean recording of the type of music you play.
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Tim Halligan

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The next question I feel I need to address is the crossover. The factory installed crossover is set to 1.6khz. Does anyone know where I can find a different crossover?...Then the other question is, would it really sound any different.

This is - to me at least - a process of throwing good money after bad...a fool's errand if you will.

It's clear that you aren't happy with the sound of these boxes, so why don't you restore them to factory spec and try and sell them, or trade them against some actual better boxes.

Picking up good boxes second hand should be relatively easy due to the migration of inventory to self-powered boxes.

Cheers,
Tim
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Tim McCulloch

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This is - to me at least - a process of throwing good money after bad...a fool's errand if you will.

It's clear that you aren't happy with the sound of these boxes, so why don't you restore them to factory spec and try and sell them, or trade them against some actual better boxes.

Picking up good boxes second hand should be relatively easy due to the migration of inventory to self-powered boxes.

Cheers,
Tim

^^^^^^  This right here.


Billy, you can't "improve" most loudspeaker designs because they represent what is possible with the materials available to the designer (to meet a particular price point) and changing ANY part of that means you're off into unknown territory.

The reality is that B52 is a low end, entry level brand and their stuff sounds entry level.  There's no particular shame in that (we all start somewhere) but as Halligan points out, "improving" such things is a fool's errand.

He's also right that in general, you're better off selling such things when you outgrow them (there's always someone else starting out) rather than trying to kludge your way to something you *hope* is better.  Your current experience bears this out.

It's too late to undo what you've done so consider the money you lost by modifying the cabinet and also the money you spend on new drivers and horns as tuition at Ye Olde Skool of Harde Knox.
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Ivan Beaver

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^^^^^^  This right here.


and their stuff sounds entry level.  There's no particular shame in that (we all start somewhere) but as Halligan points out, "improving" such things is a fool's errand.


People would cringe if they saw what I started with.

My first "PA" consisted of a 4 channel mixer I built using the chassis of my broken Kay guitar amp.

There was a single 40 watt amp.

The speakers were 2x12" and a 4x10" horn (1 each side).  All radio shack parts.  But at least they were the "musical instrument" speakers :)

Of course the cabinets were particle/chip board (it was cheaper).

Zip cord for speaker wire etc

No low pass on the woofers and only a single pole filter on the HF.

But hey-it worked for me-at the time.

When they invent the time machine I REALLY REALLY want to go back to some of my jobs to see what they really sounded like
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Ivan Beaver
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John Halliburton

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People would cringe if they saw what I started with.

This is what I started out with.  Peavey Black Widow 12" and the 1" #22 hf driver and horn.  Built the cabinets and the crossovers.  I learned early on from someone that getting stands for them made a big difference, so I put Atlas pole cups and bought a pair of the matching chrome stands.  The old Bogen four channel tube mixer just wasn't big enough(my father in law's), so we bought a Peavey 8 channel powered mixer with the fake Oak side panels.  Weighed a ton, especially after I'd found a used road case that fit it.  All this circa 1983, and bought from Gand Music and Sound. 

Found another photo.  The first time I mixed at Petrillo in Grant Park. ;>)  A city sponsored battle of the neighborhood bands finale.  Had to bring your own sound.  The tops are one of the later designs done with some input from Tom.  Four way, all first order crossover filters(phase shift is minimized to 90 degrees.  Sealed woofer cabinet-better impulse response, sealed back offers some driver protection against over excursion.  The subwoofer is a prototype for the elephant communication project at Cornell University for professors Payne and Poole.  -3db at 14hz.  I made the rack case a couple of days before this for the Crest 8001 to travel-it was one of the shop amps at Intersonics.  Needless to say, I had no problem keeping up with that Meyer rig in the photo. Oh, and the Peavey mixer down in the lower right.  Used a 55gal drum for a stand.

To the OP-obviously you've discovered two things.  First, it rarely is cost effective overall to build it yourself.  Second, there really is a lot of science and art to building a good loudspeaker.  I went through six versions of my first PA loudspeakers, including the last couple of iterations with input from Tom Danley.  When Tom first developed his full range loudspeaker designs, I pretty much quit and have been using his ever since.

I went thru the same scenario with monitors.  Then a number of years ago I got together with Curtis List and Jack Arnott and we designed the Coax wedges I've used and built ever since. 

Also built a few subwoofers. ;>)

Would I have traded all this DIY for another more standard path?  Not on your life. 

Go ahead and keep tearing things apart and putting them back together.  Best learning curve around.

Best regards,

John
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 11:59:37 AM by John Halliburton »
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Jonathan Burk

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Well I got em put together and tested, and the good news is they don't sound any worse. Hard to say they sound better though. I think I can tell a slight difference but not really the $400 value of investment just yet. Will do some tuning and see what I can get out of it. My hope is that it will at least have a further throw.
The next question I feel I need to address is the crossover. The factory installed crossover is set to 1.6khz. Does anyone know where I can find a different crossover? I've totally searched the web for passive crossovers and the options are surprisingly slim! My best guess is I should find something around 1.2, but again, it's a guess. Then the other question is, would it really sound any different.

The best after-market crossovers are probably going to be these Peaveys:

https://www.parts-express.com/peavey-ecs-1000x-pa-cabinet-speaker-crossover-1000-hz-2-way--294-325

They have variable cuts for the highs, compression driver protection, and bi-amp inputs.  They're available at a few different frequencies.  Not sure where to get them now, but if you can find them, they're really good.

Otherwise, this is probably the best selection you'll find:

http://www.usspeaker.com/crossovernetworks1.htm

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