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[John Chiara]

I don't know...
To be honest I live in a somewhat remote area so there aren't many "fancy" systems around here, but everything I've heard so far (Including Meyer, Martin, Nexo, Outline, EV, QSC and so on) doesn't compare to the warm yet articulate midrange I get from my modest KRK Rokit 5s in a large room. A couple of systems are somewhat close in the mids but unbelievably harsh in the highs...

I do agree, however, that a stage full of the exact same mic is certainly not ideal. "Mic character" starts to turn into "mud build-up" and you certainly don't want that - But if you filled the entire stage with PR22s for instance you'd most likely get similar results.

My point is, anyway, the 58 is not really a "bad" sounding mic by itself, there's tons of other stuff that's going to ruin your sound more than a 58 on a vocal will.

Lol!! Ok, I'm a recording guy too and if your 'reference' are KRK Rockits we have a weak starting point. Some of the worst studio monitors ever produced..IMO. The PR22's are much more true to the source and less colored than a 58...so no you don't get as much 'mic sound' buildup.
I've been mixing bands for over 40 years and the sound of a 58 and the old cheap Yamaha preamps are 2 sounds I have been able to consistently recognize with no visual confirmation.
One last comment. Last year I saw Megadeath at a local festival. Vocals sounded ridiculous. That week they happened to be on the cover of FOH magazine. The FOH mixer stated...
1. 'Of course the vocal mics are all SM 58's.'
2. 'The hardest thing is getting the vocals loud enough over the loud stage volume with a wide pattern vocal mic.'
Now I would consider Tim's example and my own about how the off axis sound of the 58 hampers a number of things...and then I want to do a 'Batman slapping Robin in the head' MEME to Megadeath's FOH mixer! DUH!!!???

[Stelios Mac]

Lol!! Ok, I'm a recording guy too and if your 'reference' are KRK Rockits we have a weak starting point. Some of the worst studio monitors ever produced..IMO. The PR22's are much more true to the source and less colored than a 58...so no you don't get as much 'mic sound' buildup.
I've been mixing bands for over 40 years and the sound of a 58 and the old cheap Yamaha preamps are 2 sounds I have been able to consistently recognize with no visual confirmation.
One last comment. Last year I saw Megadeath at a local festival. Vocals sounded ridiculous. That week they happened to be on the cover of FOH magazine. The FOH mixer stated...
1. 'Of course the vocal mics are all SM 58's.'
2. 'The hardest thing is getting the vocals loud enough over the loud stage volume with a wide pattern vocal mic.'
Now I would consider Tim's example and my own about how the off axis sound of the 58 hampers a number of things...and then I want to do a 'Batman slapping Robin in the head' MEME to Megadeath's FOH mixer! DUH!!!???

Oh trust me, they sound nothing like KRK Rokits anymore... 

Still in the works till I finalize it using FIR filters.
They're not really much of a monitor "stock", yeah.

Having taken part in a few Telefunken mixing contests a few years ago where almost every single track had been recorded using well-respected $300 M80s, I'll have to disagree. You might get less buildup, but you will get similar results (less separation, and again, all the nice "character" of the mic turns into "ugly build up").

Blaming just the vocal mic for ridiculous sounding vocals is a bit... "extreme", don't you think?
Coming out of my monitors it's a good sounding, very workable mic. Maybe it's tone really clashes with the voice of the artist, but I still reckon it won't sound "ridiculous" just by itself through monitors.
As for the pattern; Yeah, it is what it is, different mics have different patters and different uses. I wouldn't go with a 58 either if it was such a loud stage, Audix OM should be a fair bit tighter.

Just to clarify: No, I probably still wouldn't use 58s for vocalists if I had the choice. But, imho, there's tons of things you need to address before you start messing with different mics.

[Ryan C. Davis]

Heil PR35 pretty much works for anyone and takes EQ very well.

More like- "have to EQ the piss out of it". I bought a PR35 and a PR22 without trying them first and I can't begin to explain how much I dislike them. I had the highest hopes but it takes way too much work to make them sound right.

[John Chiara]

More like- "have to EQ the piss out of it". I bought a PR35 and a PR22 without trying them first and I can't begin to explain how much I dislike them. I had the highest hopes but it takes way too much work to make them sound right.

Hmm. Puzzling. In my one venue the PR 35 sounds better than any mic on list vocals...and I end up with the channel EQ close to flat...with low end rolled off. PR 22 works awesome on Rhodes/Wurlitzer through an amp...and good on guitars...IMO. Any other drastic sound modifications  going on?
I did a live recording years ago...blues band...live vocals through a PR 35. Could not improve on the sound etc th studio setup. Next live show with that band..same venue..put up an M80...sounded like something was broken...put up the PR35... back to normal.
I thought those Telefunkin tracks were pretty weird...especially the lame drummer!

[Ryan C. Davis]

Hmm. Puzzling. In my one venue the PR 35 sounds better than any mic on list vocals...and I end up with the channel EQ close to flat...with low end rolled off. PR 22 works awesome on Rhodes/Wurlitzer through an amp...and good on guitars...IMO. Any other drastic sound modifications  going on?
I did a live recording years ago...blues band...live vocals through a PR 35. Could not improve on the sound etc th studio setup. Next live show with that band..same venue..put up an M80...sounded like something was broken...put up the PR35... back to normal.
I thought those Telefunkin tracks were pretty weird...especially the lame drummer!

I don't wanna hijack the thread, I'll PM you.

[Mac Kerr]

I don't wanna hijack the thread, I'll PM you.

This kind of discussion is really what forums are about. Why take it offline?


Mac

[Ryan C. Davis]

This kind of discussion is really what forums are about. Why take it offline?


Mac

Ask and you shall receive, Mac. ;-)

One of my hobbies is ham radio, Heil has a great reputation there too so I figured I couldn't go wrong with some of his mics as part of my locker. I bought a PR22, and a PR35- at different times and places, and I can't for the life of me get them to sound "right" without a lot of equalization, way more than I would guess any mic should need. With an SM58 I might pull down a little lower midrange but I really don't ever have to mess with them too much more than that. Whenever I've tried the PR35 it sounds so thin through the midrange and bright on the upper end. In order to get an meat to the midrange I'm pulling down highs and adding a bunch through the midrange which I don't love having to do. The PR22 will work reasonably well on instruments like mandos- they cut through pretty well on that mic but again its more the forward sound with the bright highs and lean midrange that makes it seem that way- I think. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what everyone else is doing right. I'd love to have a couple of higher end boutique mics that I can use for a kick butt lead vocalist or something I really want to stand out but so far I haven't been loving these Heils I've tried.

I'm using an older SL24 desk, no external DSP or effects. I don't need to be right, I just want awesome results. If someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong or not seeing I'd love to give these mics another try.

[Tim Weaver]

Ask and you shall receive, Mac. ;-)

One of my hobbies is ham radio, Heil has a great reputation there too so I figured I couldn't go wrong with some of his mics as part of my locker. I bought a PR22, and a PR35- at different times and places, and I can't for the life of me get them to sound "right" without a lot of equalization, way more than I would guess any mic should need. With an SM58 I might pull down a little lower midrange but I really don't ever have to mess with them too much more than that. Whenever I've tried the PR35 it sounds so thin through the midrange and bright on the upper end. In order to get an meat to the midrange I'm pulling down highs and adding a bunch through the midrange which I don't love having to do. The PR22 will work reasonably well on instruments like mandos- they cut through pretty well on that mic but again its more the forward sound with the bright highs and lean midrange that makes it seem that way- I think. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what everyone else is doing right. I'd love to have a couple of higher end boutique mics that I can use for a kick butt lead vocalist or something I really want to stand out but so far I haven't been loving these Heils I've tried.

I'm using an older SL24 desk, no external DSP or effects. I don't need to be right, I just want awesome results. If someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong or not seeing I'd love to give these mics another try.

And there it is. I find that so many people find the "new whiz bang" mic and talk about how accurate and hifi it sounds. To me, they always have a hyped and weird sounding hi end.

I also find that folks that like hyped up mics usually have kinda poorly tuned PA's. Put a 58 on a decent rig and all you really need to do roll up that hi pass.

https://youtu.be/3DhbEfgpA1Q


I find that you can really bring out a "breathy" singer with a 58 unlike any other mic. All other hyped mics will kill you with brain darts unless you tame that high end. And if you tame the high end you lose the breathyness.

[John Ferreira]

I invited 3 other studio producers, and there were three professional singers for an afternoon of more than 10 mic shootout. The monitors were Adam's 2.5 and also several different headphones, including the AKG 600.Some of the mics were shure sm58, sm57, shure86, Newman km105, and Audio Technica AE3300, and for comparison only Newman Ai87, Audio Tecnhica 2040, as well as some cheaper mics.

After several hours and many kinds of tests, blind and double blind, we came to an unanimous conclusion, Audio Technica AE3300. I also noticed on that year, that was the mic used on vocals at the Juno Awards. I tried many times going back to the sm58 (bought late 90s) but for the last 10 years or so, it is on the bottom of a bag as a back up. My other much older m58 is from the early 70s, and the high end is quite gone. AE3300 has been my favourite for a decade or so, and I sing for a living just about every week. In the studio, for vocals, I prefer the Newman Ai87 out of 14 or so other mics.

EDIT: we should have recorded that whole test session.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Andrew Broughton]

Take a great rig, like a perfectly tuned and aligned V-Dosc, D&B, Meyer rig - something with real clarity and cohesion, put up SM58's for the band, mix for a week on the rig, tweak everything you can, use all the tricks in your bag to make those vocals as great as you can make them.

Now, unplug the SM58s, drop your channel gains by exactly 4db, and plug in a KSM8. Don't touch your eqs or anything else. You'll hear a similar tonality, but the clarity will be night and day. Also, you can add back more warmth as it won't get muddy when they eat the mic.

There's nothing wrong with an SM58 until you hear the difference. No reason to take my word for it, just try it. Remember, though - it won't make much difference unless you already have a rig that you can really hear the details.

[ProSoundWeb Community]