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[John Fruits]

Remember when Tom Petty insisted on a 57.

[Jay Barracato]

How many people here have played " pick the best sounding sm58 for today"  for a two hour afternoon soundcheck with the well known alt singer/songwriter/producer, knowing full well everything will need to be re EQ'ed for the changed conditions at showtime.

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[Tim McCulloch]

Remember when Tom Petty insisted on a 57.

Yeah, and there's a story about how he ended up on the Neumann...

The short version is that FOH mixerperson Robert Scovil was frustrated that the Star was 18' downstage of one of rock's loudest drummers, with guitars attempting to keep up, and Petty sings like a... er... a guy who has to keep his voice together for a 3 hour show.  It all bled into the 57 with some ugly results.  Scovi's take-away thought was "if I can't fix the bleed it needs to sound good".  While some folks say the KMS105 (and the similarly marketed Shure KSM9) "pick up the whole stage" the reality is that all mics will pick up some/much/all of the bleed (pattern dependent) and it's the phase response of the mic (especially off-axis) that determines the clarity of that pick up.

Scovi got Petty to use the Neumann by showing up at sound check with his packed luggage prominently displayed in front of the FOH console (in Petty's line of sight).  The Neumann was on the stand at center stage and the SM57 was off to the side.  Scovi's story is that if Petty had gone to the 57, Scovi was going for his luggage.  Petty gave the Neumann a chance and after some adjustments, was satisfied with the results on stage, leaving Scovi to do a bunch of time alignment with the sources that contributed to the bleed.   The result is a much cleaner sounding mix, and it got that way by treating the bleed as an input Scovi could not control, but only add to.

[Stelios Mac]

I didn't particularly care for 58s on vocals till I got to hear myself talk on one through my monitors.
Sure a condenser might have been somewhat better, but no mic (Neumann, DPA, you name it) through a PA will come even remotely close to that sound, imho.

Sure some mics will fit some voices better than others but I reckon there's much more important stuff to go through before you mess with different mics; Don't spend $3k on fancy Overheads, $4k on DPA vocal mics and another $2k on Royer ribbons for your guitars if you're gonna run them through any speaker that wouldn't be capable of replacing a (cheap) studio monitor.

I, personally, would be simply overjoyed if all I had was 58s, but a PA that could reproduce them exactly how they sound.

[John Chiara]

Yeah, and there's a story about how he ended up on the Neumann...

The short version is that FOH mixerperson Robert Scovil was frustrated that the Star was 18' downstage of one of rock's loudest drummers, with guitars attempting to keep up, and Petty sings like a... er... a guy who has to keep his voice together for a 3 hour show.  It all bled into the 57 with some ugly results.  Scovi's take-away thought was "if I can't fix the bleed it needs to sound good".  While some folks say the KMS105 (and the similarly marketed Shure KSM9) "pick up the whole stage" the reality is that all mics will pick up some/much/all of the bleed (pattern dependent) and it's the phase response of the mic (especially off-axis) that determines the clarity of that pick up.

Scovi got Petty to use the Neumann by showing up at sound check with his packed luggage prominently displayed in front of the FOH console (in Petty's line of sight).  The Neumann was on the stand at center stage and the SM57 was off to the side.  Scovi's story is that if Petty had gone to the 57, Scovi was going for his luggage.  Petty gave the Neumann a chance and after some adjustments, was satisfied with the results on stage, leaving Scovi to do a bunch of time alignment with the sources that contributed to the bleed.   The result is a much cleaner sounding mix, and it got that way by treating the bleed as an input Scovi could not control, but only add to.

Same story here. One loud show at my old club showed me how bad a distorted guitar sounded 10' away and off axis from a 58. Switching that out made a big difference. I started using EV PL84's after getting some really cheap on a Stupid Deal day...and used them to do a stereo recording of a 24 piece band in my big studio room...and noticing how realistic the off axis parts of the band sounded. I now use them for front line vocals on stage and the bleed is way less annoying.

[John Chiara]

I didn't particularly care for 58s on vocals till I got to hear myself talk on one through my monitors.
Sure a condenser might have been somewhat better, but no mic (Neumann, DPA, you name it) through a PA will come even remotely close to that sound, imho.

Sure some mics will fit some voices better than others but I reckon there's much more important stuff to go through before you mess with different mics; Don't spend $3k on fancy Overheads, $4k on DPA vocal mics and another $2k on Royer ribbons for your guitars if you're gonna run them through any speaker that wouldn't be capable of replacing a (cheap) studio monitor.

I, personally, would be simply overjoyed if all I had was 58s, but a PA that could reproduce them exactly how they sound.

Hmm...the problem I have is that modern PA systems DO reproduce them how they sound! If I see a stage mixed with all 57 and 58's...I have to go into my brain and switch on the artificial 'fidelity' setting. I see so many party bands where the whole sound of the band would greatly improve by replacing the vocal mics with something else. My usual choice is a Heil PR22...and so far 3 female vocalists have purchased a PR22.

[lindsay Dean]

only 3 in the whole widest world ?

[John Chiara]

only 3 in the whole widest world ?

Lol!! 3 that I worked with!

[Jeff Bankston]

This is either "Fake News" or insidious propaganda put out by Shure.

It Shure is !

[Stelios Mac]

Hmm...the problem I have is that modern PA systems DO reproduce them how they sound! If I see a stage mixed with all 57 and 58's...I have to go into my brain and switch on the artificial 'fidelity' setting. I see so many party bands where the whole sound of the band would greatly improve by replacing the vocal mics with something else. My usual choice is a Heil PR22...and so far 3 female vocalists have purchased a PR22.

I don't know...
To be honest I live in a somewhat remote area so there aren't many "fancy" systems around here, but everything I've heard so far (Including Meyer, Martin, Nexo, Outline, EV, QSC and so on) doesn't compare to the warm yet articulate midrange I get from my modest KRK Rokit 5s in a large room. A couple of systems are somewhat close in the mids but unbelievably harsh in the highs...

I do agree, however, that a stage full of the exact same mic is certainly not ideal. "Mic character" starts to turn into "mud build-up" and you certainly don't want that - But if you filled the entire stage with PR22s for instance you'd most likely get similar results.

My point is, anyway, the 58 is not really a "bad" sounding mic by itself, there's tons of other stuff that's going to ruin your sound more than a 58 on a vocal will.

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