ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Power amp life expectancy  (Read 5339 times)

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1043
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 12:21:04 pm »

For what it's worth the CE4000 was by far the best one in the CE series. There a completely different amp than the 1000's and 2000's.

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 16145
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 02:03:05 pm »

For what it's worth the CE4000 was by far the best one in the CE series. There a completely different amp than the 1000's and 2000's.
Yes, the CE1000/2000 are just poorly repackaged (using SMD) DC300 designs. I would have advised planting those directly in the nearest dumpster... 

That said carrying a backup for CE4000s that old seems prudent. Amps break, even good ones, and old ones are often harder to fix, or not worth fixing.

JR
Logged
On the internet people tell you everything "they" know, not the answer to "your" question.....  http://circularscience.com/

Scott (Abrahamson)

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 08:02:23 pm »

Sorry, long post.

I have a CE2000 that died about five years ago that I haven't got the heart to pitch or repair.

The CE4000's get blown out but I have not taken them apart to check the capacitors. It sounds like a visual inspection would be prudent.

They got throttled this weekend the most ever since I have had them.

What I had booked was a local kids fundraiser with a local DJ and a couple of MC's with some dancers at a ball room at our local events center.

When I get there I discover it is in one of the main halls at 250'x200'x35'. Oh, and by the way there were two more national Dj acts and a MTV Hip Hop rapper/dancer video award winner. Oh, and I need to provide video feeds for live streaming and video archive.

At this point I am getting a bit nervous. I am by myself. I have a XR18 for foh with an iPad. I have four Community SLS920's over four dual eighteen cabinets powered by three CE4000's all ground stacked for video sight lines.

The promoter knew my system so, oh well, I'll just do the best job that I can.

I have four Eons on one mix across the front of a fifty foot stage and there will be up to seventy five dancers, and the DJ's are 20' behind the monitors. It gets even better, I have two $80 wireless mics for the national talent.

The talent arrives for sound check, and I all ready had the monitors set to stun so they were happy. Everyone was impressed that foh was an iPad and I could easily move from person to person to set levels.

Back 75' at foh with management I bring up the mains and start shaking the platform we are on. The vocals are clear and clean and I am not in the red, but right at my system's limit. Big smile and fist bump and a 'sounds great". So far so good. I have five hours of non stop hip hop dance music to survive.

I am absolutely running the snot out of my system, harder than ever before. I go up and check the power amps and the tops never overloaded, the subs only occasionally.

After five hours of abuse I go to shut down the amps and feel behind them and they are warm, though not as warm as I would have expected.

At the end of the night the national guys were happy as well as the promoter so I dodged a bullet.

If the capacitors in the amps are what goes bad, is there a performance boost by changing capacitors to a better quality or different value?

Thanks...Scott





Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 19359
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 08:21:06 pm »

After five hours of abuse I go to shut down the amps and feel behind them and they are warm, though not as warm as I would have expected.

At the end of the night the national guys were happy as well as the promoter so I dodged a bullet.

If the capacitors in the amps are what goes bad, is there a performance boost by changing capacitors to a better quality or different value?

Thanks...Scott

Should original parts be unobtanium the biggest challenge will be finding correct-value replacements that physically fit the space available.

I used a CE4000 to replace a Crest 8001 on subwoofer duty.  The Crests were Pin 3 hot so I cut up a mic cable and wired it to the terminal strip on the CE so I'd get matching polarity with the rest of the Crest amps.  I didn't hear any difference but there were a big pile o' subs so it would have needed a big difference to stand out.  The CE4000 survived subwoofer duty on a 5 hour hardcore/metal show and I think that particular amp may be one of the 4 we still have.

Other than a visual inspection of the PSU caps for swelling or leakage I doubt there's much to worry about at this point.  You might call Kevin Gring at Crown and chat him up about whatever age related failures might await you, but I suspect you'll still be using your CE4000 when I retire...
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Stu McDoniel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1144
  • Central Wisconsin...USA
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 09:04:48 pm »

Sorry, long post.

I have a CE2000 that died about five years ago that I haven't got the heart to pitch or repair.

The CE4000's get blown out but I have not taken them apart to check the capacitors. It sounds like a visual inspection would be prudent.

They got throttled this weekend the most ever since I have had them.

What I had booked was a local kids fundraiser with a local DJ and a couple of MC's with some dancers at a ball room at our local events center.

When I get there I discover it is in one of the main halls at 250'x200'x35'. Oh, and by the way there were two more national Dj acts and a MTV Hip Hop rapper/dancer video award winner. Oh, and I need to provide video feeds for live streaming and video archive.

At this point I am getting a bit nervous. I am by myself. I have a XR18 for foh with an iPad. I have four Community SLS920's over four dual eighteen cabinets powered by three CE4000's all ground stacked for video sight lines.

The promoter knew my system so, oh well, I'll just do the best job that I can.

I have four Eons on one mix across the front of a fifty foot stage and there will be up to seventy five dancers, and the DJ's are 20' behind the monitors. It gets even better, I have two $80 wireless mics for the national talent.

The talent arrives for sound check, and I all ready had the monitors set to stun so they were happy. Everyone was impressed that foh was an iPad and I could easily move from person to person to set levels.

Back 75' at foh with management I bring up the mains and start shaking the platform we are on. The vocals are clear and clean and I am not in the red, but right at my system's limit. Big smile and fist bump and a 'sounds great". So far so good. I have five hours of non stop hip hop dance music to survive.

I am absolutely running the snot out of my system, harder than ever before. I go up and check the power amps and the tops never overloaded, the subs only occasionally.

After five hours of abuse I go to shut down the amps and feel behind them and they are warm, though not as warm as I would have expected.

At the end of the night the national guys were happy as well as the promoter so I dodged a bullet.

If the capacitors in the amps are what goes bad, is there a performance boost by changing capacitors to a better quality or different value?

Thanks...Scott
Let me make if perfectly clear that a failure in any electronic device could be a number of components or a component.  My post was to inform that Electrolytic caps in devices 15years or beyond might be suspect.
Caps that are subject to a LOT of heat can change value and lead to failure even sooner.
For all you know it could be output transistors in your amp that failed.
Logged

James A. Griffin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 828
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 10:15:41 pm »

Would you trust using them for another five years?

Good amps are durable.

Back in the day (Late 70's) when I worked at a recording studio, our monitors were powered by Crown DC150's and DC300's.     I don't think they were turned off for more than 5 or 6 short maintenance periods for the 6 years I was there.  No issues.

When I ran my own studio for 10 years,  some of the speakers were powered by Hafler Pro1200's that I put together from the kit..  Again, no issues for the 10 years they ran.    One of the Hafler's builit in 1982 still sits in the rack in my editing / mixing room and still runs when needed.  (mostly using powered speakers now)

Yea, life on the road is harder on amps than in the studio, but the point is, well-treated amps are durable.
Logged
I need to determine where in this swamp of unbalanced formulas squatteth the Toad of Truth

Jeff Bankston

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2191
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2017, 12:27:07 am »

I know of a major tour sound company that still has some early 80's QSC 3800 amps they use. I have dibs on them whenever they decide to sell them, that is IF they decide to sell them. The head guy told me why would they spend money to replace something that works great and is extremely reliable. They have an in house QSC amp tech.
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 19359
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 02:01:18 am »

Let me make if perfectly clear that a failure in any electronic device could be a number of components or a component.  My post was to inform that Electrolytic caps in devices 15years or beyond might be suspect.
Caps that are subject to a LOT of heat can change value and lead to failure even sooner.
For all you know it could be output transistors in your amp that failed.

His CE4000 is still working, it was his CE2000 that went to Nonfunction Junction.  With that model there are several possibilities but I think your choice of output transistors is a good one.  I don't think the 2k is worth repairing.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 19359
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 02:04:06 am »

Good amps are durable.

Back in the day (Late 70's) when I worked at a recording studio, our monitors were powered by Crown DC150's and DC300's.     I don't think they were turned off for more than 5 or 6 short maintenance periods for the 6 years I was there.  No issues.

When I ran my own studio for 10 years,  some of the speakers were powered by Hafler Pro1200's that I put together from the kit..  Again, no issues for the 10 years they ran.    One of the Hafler's builit in 1982 still sits in the rack in my editing / mixing room and still runs when needed.  (mostly using powered speakers now)

Yea, life on the road is harder on amps than in the studio, but the point is, well-treated amps are durable.

I built a Hafler DH 1200 for my first "real PA", low section.  I still have it powering my home stereo (Soundcraftsmen CX4000 Preamp, JBL 4408 speakers).
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1043
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: Power amp life expectancy
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 02:24:19 am »

I built a Hafler DH200 power amp than ran the bullet tweeters in an early system. The amp lives on today in my living room powering the Tannoy DMT10 II studio monitors I use for my stereo. I did need to re cap the amp a few years ago, one channel started sounding really thin. The power supply caps were fine, I just replaced all the electrolytics on the amp boards and re biased the amp.
I use a Hafler DH110 preamp with the amp and I re-capped it at the same time as the amp. Even though the pre amp was fine since I was in the re-capping mode I just did it as well.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.077 seconds with 23 queries.