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[Robin Zenteto]

I recommend installing ceiling mounted speakers in both the lobby and the nursery to provide even coverage over the whole area. Both rooms can be fed by the same 70V amplifier (providing it is sized correctly) if you don't mind them having the same mix. Each room will have a separate volume control (one volume control per room) that controls all of the speakers in that room. (If you want separate mixes in the different rooms, then you'll need a separate amplifier channel for each mix.)

Not all volume controls are created equal. The ones for the home theater market usually aren't designed for 70V speaker circuits.

When you install the TV, continue using the in-ceiling speakers. You don't want to be dependent on the speakers in the TV -- they will not provide good coverage for the room. This means that your video feed must be a low-latency feed so that the video remains in sync with the audio that's fed directly from the board. Besides, you may run into times when you want sound but not have the TV on.

Depending on the size of the sanctuary and the location of the lobby, you may find it desirable to delay the audio slightly to time align it to the main speakers. This will prevent the perception of an "echo" for the people in the lobby, if they can hear sound from the main speakers.

An interesting thing about synchronizing video and audio: if the audio precedes the video (you hear the words before you see the lips move), the human mind has trouble reconciling the two and focusing on the message. On the other hand, the audio can follow the video by several hundred milliseconds and the human mind won't even notice. That's because it's natural for sound to lag behind sight, due to the differences in the speed of light and the speed of sound.

One thing you'll quickly learn here is that home theater audio and pro audio have very little in common. Home theater audio components are rarely suitable for use in a commercial environment such as a church.

What kind of ceiling speakers should I look into getting?  If I put 14/4 wire in the walls just so I have it, can I use it for speakers that only need 14/2?

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

What kind of ceiling speakers should I look into getting?  If I put 14/4 wire in the walls just so I have it, can I use it for speakers that only need 14/2?

Extra wires are fine.  Ceiling speakers may be fine, but that depends on what you're trying to do.  If you want your whole lobby to have more even sound and have some height to work with, they can be a better choice than wall-mounted.  If you have 8' ceilings and/or don't really want the whole lobby to have even coverage (people who want to hear will go near the speakers; people who want to talk can get away from the sound), wall-mount speakers are better.

There are various vendors that make 70volt ceiling speakers.  JBL does, and others.

[Robin Zenteto]

I recommend installing ceiling mounted speakers in both the lobby and the nursery to provide even coverage over the whole area. Both rooms can be fed by the same 70V amplifier (providing it is sized correctly) if you don't mind them having the same mix. Each room will have a separate volume control (one volume control per room) that controls all of the speakers in that room. (If you want separate mixes in the different rooms, then you'll need a separate amplifier channel for each mix.)

Not all volume controls are created equal. The ones for the home theater market usually aren't designed for 70V speaker circuits.

When you install the TV, continue using the in-ceiling speakers. You don't want to be dependent on the speakers in the TV -- they will not provide good coverage for the room. This means that your video feed must be a low-latency feed so that the video remains in sync with the audio that's fed directly from the board. Besides, you may run into times when you want sound but not have the TV on.

Depending on the size of the sanctuary and the location of the lobby, you may find it desirable to delay the audio slightly to time align it to the main speakers. This will prevent the perception of an "echo" for the people in the lobby, if they can hear sound from the main speakers.

An interesting thing about synchronizing video and audio: if the audio precedes the video (you hear the words before you see the lips move), the human mind has trouble reconciling the two and focusing on the message. On the other hand, the audio can follow the video by several hundred milliseconds and the human mind won't even notice. That's because it's natural for sound to lag behind sight, due to the differences in the speed of light and the speed of sound.

One thing you'll quickly learn here is that home theater audio and pro audio have very little in common. Home theater audio components are rarely suitable for use in a commercial environment such as a church.

We are definitely using commercial grade equipment.  This is all getting inspected by L&I.

What ceiling speakers should I be looking at?  If I run 14/4 wire can I use it for 14/2 applications.  I'd just like to make sure I put as much in the walls and the ceilings that I need before we sheetrock. 

Also is there benefit to running the 14/4 in the ceiling in the sanctuary for use in the future?  It is 70x50 vaulted ceiling, 19' at the peak.  The stage/stairs take up about 20' of the front of the building.

[Robin Zenteto]

Extra wires are fine.  Ceiling speakers may be fine, but that depends on what you're trying to do.  If you want your whole lobby to have more even sound and have some height to work with, they can be a better choice than wall-mounted.  If you have 8' ceilings and/or don't really want the whole lobby to have even coverage (people who want to hear will go near the speakers; people who want to talk can get away from the sound), wall-mount speakers are better.

There are various vendors that make 70volt ceiling speakers.  JBL does, and others.

I think that I do want an area of "localized" sound for right now... but maybe I could run a second wire to the other side of the lobby in case someone decides we need more even sound in the future.  The lobby is 20'x60' and the ceiling in the lobby is 13'.....we may someday install a drop ceiling....probably won't happen in my lifetime.

Also is there benefit to running the 14/4 in the ceiling in the sanctuary for use in the future?  It is 70x50 vaulted ceiling, 19' at the peak.  The stage/stairs take up about 20' of the front of the building.

[Robin Zenteto]

I think that I do want an area of "localized" sound for right now... but maybe I could run a second wire to the other side of the lobby in case someone decides we need more even sound in the future.  The lobby is 20'x60' and the ceiling in the lobby is 13'.....we may someday install a drop ceiling....probably won't happen in my lifetime.

Also is there benefit to running the 14/4 in the ceiling in the sanctuary for use in the future?  It is 70x50 vaulted ceiling, 19' at the peak.  The stage/stairs take up about 20' of the front of the building.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I think that I do want an area of "localized" sound for right now... but maybe I could run a second wire to the other side of the lobby in case someone decides we need more even sound in the future.  The lobby is 20'x60' and the ceiling in the lobby is 13'.....we may someday install a drop ceiling....probably won't happen in my lifetime.

Also is there benefit to running the 14/4 in the ceiling in the sanctuary for use in the future?  It is 70x50 vaulted ceiling, 19' at the peak.  The stage/stairs take up about 20' of the front of the building.

14/4 wire has no down sides other than cost, and more wire for futureproofing is a good idea, though it's impossible to predict what you will ultimately need.  If you're enclosing spaces, putting in conduit may be a better choice than more speaker wire - that would allow for future video or computer things, or who knows what else.

RE the ceiling vs wall - picture the sound coming out of the speaker in the shape of a cone.  If the speaker is wall-mounted, that cone projects horizontally, and therefore will cover most of the room, though it will be louder nearer the speakers.  For ceiling speakers, the sound fires downward.  Because of this, each speaker's cone only covers a fairly small area, so while everyone who is under a speaker will hear the same sound level as someone else, but you need a larger number of speakers to have coverage compared to wall-mount.  Personally I'm not a fan of ceiling speakers, but they do have applications.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Thanks for posting your plan.  Normally people run into trouble with existing structures in that they can't easily get from point A to point B through finished walls.  Run as much and as large conduit as you can from your AV world to stage, to back stage, to the lobby, toward your offices, as you can. 

[Robin Zenteto]

Thanks for posting your plan.  Normally people run into trouble with existing structures in that they can't easily get from point A to point B through finished walls.  Run as much and as large conduit as you can from your AV world to stage, to back stage, to the lobby, toward your offices, as you can.

Okay, that goes with what I was thinking.  Very interesting point about thinking of sound coming out in a cone shape.   I think wall speakers will work very well for now.  We have a generous sized attic, so as long as I get conduit in the walls, we should be able to make changes or additions in the future.
 Thank you for your help.

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