Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robin Zenteto]

Hi, I am working on getting our new church building ready for the drywall stage.  I need a speaker in the lobby and in the nursery.  They need to have their own volume control. 

First Question what would work best.  The lobby has a 13' high ceiling and the nursery has an 11' ceiling.  Should I do a wall speaker, ceiling speaker or corner mounted loud speaker.  I am leaning towards the corner mounted loudspeaker only because in the future it will be replaced with a TV.   Thinking of this one.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1269316-REG/bosch_f_01u_283_976_lb1_cw06_d_corner_cabinet_loudspeaker.html

Next question.  Right now I have cat6 running to those locations for future TVs.  What wires/cables do I need to run to the speakers to get live sound  from the sanctuary to the speakers from the soundboard.

Last question. They need to be able to adjust volume or mute the speakers in the lobby or nursery. I would like a nice in-wall volume control, like this one https://www.crutchfield.com/p_120VC700/Metra-ethereal-VC700.html?tp=2971     but I don't know what volume control to pick and what wires it needs. 

Thanks for your help.

[David Pedd]

Just 1 speaker in each location?

What amplifier are you using to drive these speakers?

[Robin Zenteto]

Just 1 speaker in each location?

What amplifier are you using to drive these speakers?

Yes, just one speaker in each location.  The lobby is pretty spacious about 18'x 60'. I hadn't given much thought to more than one speaker.  I was just going to put one in by the double doors so the lobby could double as a "cry" room.

We are in a very tiny church at the moment and we have a Mackie MFXi board and a Crown xls2500 amp. 

The board is a new purchase, but we will be upgrading other components as we are able in the future.  But for the foreseeable future, that is what we will be using.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Hi, I am working on getting our new church building ready for the drywall stage.  I need a speaker in the lobby and in the nursery.  They need to have their own volume control. 

First Question what would work best.  The lobby has a 13' high ceiling and the nursery has an 11' ceiling.  Should I do a wall speaker, ceiling speaker or corner mounted loud speaker.  I am leaning towards the corner mounted loudspeaker only because in the future it will be replaced with a TV.   Thinking of this one.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1269316-REG/bosch_f_01u_283_976_lb1_cw06_d_corner_cabinet_loudspeaker.html

Next question.  Right now I have cat6 running to those locations for future TVs.  What wires/cables do I need to run to the speakers to get live sound  from the sanctuary to the speakers from the soundboard.

Last question. They need to be able to adjust volume or mute the speakers in the lobby or nursery. I would like a nice in-wall volume control, like this one https://www.crutchfield.com/p_120VC700/Metra-ethereal-VC700.html?tp=2971     but I don't know what volume control to pick and what wires it needs. 

Thanks for your help.

Robin, typically a 70 volt distributed system is used in this scenario.  The advantages are the ability to have multiple speakers fairly far away from the amp, each with their own volume control.

To do this, you need a dedicated amp channel (if you are using your current Crown XLS2500 for speakers inside your main meeting room you will need an additional amp for your outside speakers), 70v-capable speakers, and 70v attenuators.

I recommend JBL Control25AV speakers, which are very reasonably priced and perfect for your application.

For volume controls, there are a number of choices that are pretty much the same thing, depending on the power handling ability they have.  Something like the Bogen AT10A is probably adequate for your nursery, but depending on how loud you are trying to run your lobby area, you may want a larger power capacity to avoid distortion.  The Bogen AT35A would give you more margin, at the cost of a larger junction box.

Make sure you use wire appropriate for your building code.  This may mean plenum-rated cable.  You haven't mentioned distance between the amp and these speakers.  If it's 150' or less, #14 wire is just fine. 

[Robin Zenteto]

Robin, typically a 70 volt distributed system is used in this scenario.  The advantages are the ability to have multiple speakers fairly far away from the amp, each with their own volume control.

To do this, you need a dedicated amp channel (if you are using your current Crown XLS2500 for speakers inside your main meeting room you will need an additional amp for your outside speakers), 70v-capable speakers, and 70v attenuators.

I recommend JBL Control25AV speakers, which are very reasonably priced and perfect for your application.

For volume controls, there are a number of choices that are pretty much the same thing, depending on the power handling ability they have.  Something like the Bogen AT10A is probably adequate for your nursery, but depending on how loud you are trying to run your lobby area, you may want a larger power capacity to avoid distortion.  The Bogen AT35A would give you more margin, at the cost of a larger junction box.

Make sure you use wire appropriate for your building code.  This may mean plenum-rated cable.  You haven't mentioned distance between the amp and these speakers.  If it's 150' or less, #14 wire is just fine.

Okay, that is great information. 
I can run a second amp off of the sound board correct?
Would that also give me the ability to mix the lobby different than the sanctuary?
Yes, I will need plenum-rated cable....the distance will not exceed 150'
Thanks for your help!

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Okay, that is great information. 
I can run a second amp off of the sound board correct?
Would that also give me the ability to mix the lobby different than the sanctuary?
Yes, I will need plenum-rated cable....the distance will not exceed 150'
Thanks for your help!

You can chain multiple amplifiers' inputs off a single board output if desired, however they will share the same mix.  Alternatively, you can use an auxiliary send to drive your remote speakers with a different mix; however this will require you to have to know what it should sound like out there, so you will need to periodically listen to that via headphones or some other means to know what you're sending.  Using a post-fade aux send is probably best, as that will to some degree track your regular mix.

[Robin Zenteto]

You can chain multiple amplifiers' inputs off a single board output if desired, however they will share the same mix.  Alternatively, you can use an auxiliary send to drive your remote speakers with a different mix; however this will require you to have to know what it should sound like out there, so you will need to periodically listen to that via headphones or some other means to know what you're sending.  Using a post-fade aux send is probably best, as that will to some degree track your regular mix.

Thanks for your help.  It really helped me get all the components of my research together.

[Robin Zenteto]

Thanks for your help.  It really helped me get all the components of my research together.

Okay, one more question.  I think from my research I want #14 4 wire stranded in-wall to run to the speakers.  Or is two wire okay?

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Okay, one more question.  I think from my research I want #14 4 wire stranded in-wall to run to the speakers.  Or is two wire okay?

2 conductors is the minimum required.  4-conductor wire may give you additional flexibility for sending two different program sends, but 4 wires won't do anything for you that 2 wires can't do based on what you've said thus far.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I am leaning towards the corner mounted loudspeaker only because in the future it will be replaced with a TV.

I recommend installing ceiling mounted speakers in both the lobby and the nursery to provide even coverage over the whole area. Both rooms can be fed by the same 70V amplifier (providing it is sized correctly) if you don't mind them having the same mix. Each room will have a separate volume control (one volume control per room) that controls all of the speakers in that room. (If you want separate mixes in the different rooms, then you'll need a separate amplifier channel for each mix.)

Not all volume controls are created equal. The ones for the home theater market usually aren't designed for 70V speaker circuits.

When you install the TV, continue using the in-ceiling speakers. You don't want to be dependent on the speakers in the TV -- they will not provide good coverage for the room. This means that your video feed must be a low-latency feed so that the video remains in sync with the audio that's fed directly from the board. Besides, you may run into times when you want sound but not have the TV on.

Depending on the size of the sanctuary and the location of the lobby, you may find it desirable to delay the audio slightly to time align it to the main speakers. This will prevent the perception of an "echo" for the people in the lobby, if they can hear sound from the main speakers.

An interesting thing about synchronizing video and audio: if the audio precedes the video (you hear the words before you see the lips move), the human mind has trouble reconciling the two and focusing on the message. On the other hand, the audio can follow the video by several hundred milliseconds and the human mind won't even notice. That's because it's natural for sound to lag behind sight, due to the differences in the speed of light and the speed of sound.

One thing you'll quickly learn here is that home theater audio and pro audio have very little in common. Home theater audio components are rarely suitable for use in a commercial environment such as a church.

[ProSoundWeb Community]