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[Steve (Stevie Ray) Kalbach]

Long time lurker.

Now to ask for some advice.  I was asked to provide a sound system for a local music festival in October. It will be outdoors. And the stage (20ft wide by 20 ft deep) is a band shell (1/4 dome 26 ft wide and high by 13 ft deep). The festival area is about the size of a football field, and is a steady uphill grade. Seating for maybe 150 with grass seating behind. There will be 8 local rock/cover bands over 2 days and 16 hours. I was asked to provide FOH, monitors, mics, mixer, and connections.  The bands want to show up and be plug and play.  Already asked, no special equipment requested by riders.

The park is 275ft long by 135 ft wide and surrounded by homes, so I have to watch the volume.  Sound quality and proper coverage is my first priority over pure SPL. 

The requirements laid down include sound quality as priority (the guy last year had 2 15" Behringers), and to not piss off the people in the neighborhood who live 150 ft away from the stage along both sides of the park.

My initial thought was too rent a very good but dated EAW system (4 KF650s, over 4 KF600 subs) from a local dealer,  but my local dealer gave me great pricing on the following packages to purchase. Which would you choose and why?

Package 1: 4 RCF HD-12A's with 4 RCF 708AS MKII subs, as well as 2 more HD12As to be used as stage monitors.

Package 2: 2 FBT Mitus 114A's with 2 FBT Q118SA subs, along with 2 Yamaha DBR10's for use as monitors

Other options included 4 QSC KLA's over 4 KW181s, also a system with 4 Peaveys RBN's for FOH

I'm leaning towards the Italian made stuff personal preference. I like the modularity of the RCF setup, but the FBT system is just pure power which I can add to for more coverage down the road. Another plus for the RCF is it matches my Evox systems, so I can use the subs to supplement my Evox's on medium sized events.

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

I thought that the RCF stuff was miles ahead of the FBT stuff but I could be wrong. Would your regularly use the system you are buying of would this be a once of twice a year kind of usage scenario, as a lurker I don't support I need to tell you what is coming next. If you won't be using it more that a few times a year its a better option to rent.

[Chrysander 'C.R.' Young]

First off, kudos to you for asking for advice BEFORE you bought something.  A few questions:

1. What FOH mixer will you be using?
2. What power is available on stage?
3. Do you have cables, mics, stands, DIs, and all that?
4. Do you have a competent person to run the entire system?
5. Will backline be provided?

You have a tough task here in that you need to fill a good amount of space and keep up with rock bands while not irritating the neighbors.  Some general thoughts:

1. Plan on at least 4 monitor mixes, maybe more.
2. Speakers with narrower patterns would do a better job keeping sound on the audience and not on the neighbors.
3. Controlling the volume of the bands will likely be an issue on that stage.

Good luck and keep us posted.  You will get some good advice here, but you will also get some tough questions.  A thick skin and open mind will be rewarded handsomely.

[Jeffrey Knorr - JRKLabs.com]

Hi Steve,

The systems that you mentioned are apples vs oranges... If you think the EAW rig is what's needed to do the gig, I think that's the route you should go.  However, as was just mentioned, make sure that you have at least 4 monitor mixes, all required, mics, DI's, cables, etc. as well. 

Of the new rigs mentioned, the FBT Mitus series is probably the most capable mid/high speaker mentioned but I would still think the EAW rig could walk all over it.  I have experience with some of the other FBT Mitus range and have been very happy with it.  RCF and FBT both make a wide range of products but the Mitus is a step above the HD series.

Jeff

[Stelios Mac]

Will you be renting or purchasing?

If you're renting, you should probably go for the EAW system.

If you're actually purchasing there's ton of other options as well. If you don't mind going for second hand boxes, you could probably get a system that would perform better and be slightly more flexible than those packages.
Maybe a second hand DVA T4/T8 system would be within budget? Or perhaps some old Meyer?

That being said -the RCFs are 90* horizontal coverage speakers. Two per side (properly splayed to avoid comb filtering) would result in a (roughly) 180* horizontal coverage pattern, which is too much for this area imho.
The KLAs should work nicely, however. Not only will the 90* horizontal coverage be a better fit for the venue, but the transition between the two boxes should be much more transparent.
Can't really predict how the FBT system would perform - But if you're looking for the ability to expand, I'd probably still choose the KLAs over them. Again, two per side properly splayed would result in quite a wide coverage pattern which wouldn't be of much use in many venues.

Will you only be using 2 monitors? Most rock bands would expect at least 4 in an outdoor setting (3 up front and a drumfill).

What sort of equipment do you already own and will be bringing in?

[Chris Grimshaw]

+1 on more monitor mixes. Four is a good number - three across the front, one for the drummer at the back. That said, the dome is a weird shape to be working with. Reflections aplenty.

I'd consider doubling up on subs (even if you buy some and rent the rest) and read up on cardioid configurations. Most people get annoyed by bass, so having some coverage control there will certainly work in your favour.

Haven't worked with any of the systems you've suggested, but I'd avoid using more than one mid-high box per side. Even the horn-loaded ones will have coverage overlaps and comb filtering/lobing, resulting in uneven sound through the listening area.

A good 15" top and a couple of 18" subs in cardioid would probably be my approach.

Chris

[Steve (Stevie Ray) Kalbach]

I thought that the RCF stuff was miles ahead of the FBT stuff but I could be wrong. Would your regularly use the system you are buying of would this be a once of twice a year kind of usage scenario, as a lurker I don't support I need to tell you what is coming next. If you won't be using it more that a few times a year its a better option to rent.

This FBT system is touring line gear.  The Mitus tops are array able and have a max SPL of 135.5db @ 1m per cabinet, and the subs are 135db @ 1m 139db half space.  That is some serious sound.  One Q118A is equivalent to almost 3 QSC KW181s in output.  And still sounds better.

The RCF stuff would be used multiple times per year for my DJ company for school dances and other Medium sized events.  The FBT would be to powerful for most of the private event side for my company, but I am looking into getting into more and more production work.

First off, kudos to you for asking for advice BEFORE you bought something.  A few questions:...

Good luck and keep us posted.  You will get some good advice here, but you will also get some tough questions.  A thick skin and open mind will be rewarded handsomely.

Thanks Chrysander,
As I mention right above, I have been a (uhh-ohh) dreaded DJ for over 25 years, and know a little.  I am contracting a sound engineer from a local arena who has done many concerts to help me run the event.  I do know about the DI boxes and Miss, I have a questionnaire out to all the bands to ask what they require. The largest band is 4 pieces (drums, bass, guitar, guitar/vocalist). 
1) I was planning on using my Yamaha MG16XU, or if that is not enough I have access to a YamahaMGP32X. 
2) Power is 2 115V 20A
3) Cables, mics, stands, snake Yes.  DIs need to get.
4) I hope so
5) No backline, but that band shell is like a great big speaker.  I have heard a band (classical) play there with no amplification, and is was loud full and everywhere.

Of the new rigs mentioned, the FBT Mitus series is probably the most capable mid/high speaker mentioned but I would still think the EAW rig could walk all over it.  I have experience with some of the other FBT Mitus range and have been very happy with it.  RCF and FBT both make a wide range of products but the Mitus is a step above the HD series.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,
I thought about the RCF HD series because as I mentioned above I can run 2 FOH house, and 2 up the line delayed and keep volumes controlled.  Also the RCF would be great for my indoor private events....School dances, Weddings, Sweet 16s.  The FBT would be the first part of larger setup for more live sound events down the road where I can expand it with more Mitus tops and subs, or even use them for front fill and move onto Mitus Line Arrays.  So many options.  I thought about purchasing because the end goal is to do more of these type of events and not have to rent.

[Cailen Waddell]

Can you get to the roof on each side of the band shell?  That looks like the ideal spot for some point source boxes to get more even coverage if you can safely do some down tilt.


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[Steve (Stevie Ray) Kalbach]

Will you be renting or purchasing?

It depends,  The systems I was looking at are around $7k-$8k.  Last year the festival was done with a pair of 15" Behringer tops.  Hence them changing providers.... The KLA setup would be purchased used.  FBT or RCF purchased new. As mentioned above I would run the RCF's 2 FOH and 2 delayed back in the grass.  The FBT's you can turn the horns and side splay them 50 degree angle per cabinet. Much like the EAW system.

+1 on more monitor mixes. Four is a good number - three across the front, one for the drummer at the back.

A good 15" top and a couple of 18" subs in cardioid would probably be my approach.

Chris

The dome is a challenge, it was made for the old Big Bands to play in in the 20s and acts as a giant speaker.

Can you get to the roof on each side of the band shell?  That looks like the ideal spot for some point source boxes to get more even coverage if you can safely do some down tilt.

Interesting, I'm not sure. 

[Cailen Waddell]

Also I agree the dome is a huge challenge.  Keeping stage volume to a minimum will be key.  Bands with ears will be your best friend....


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