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Author Topic: ~$15k - 4k Wishing List  (Read 1990 times)

TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: ~$15k - 4k Wishing List
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 04:37:46 pm »

Just sucks when the customer asks for it and your competition has it.
-heard the exact same thing said about HD years ago.
-also heard the same thing said about Line Arrays

Yes waiting means it will get cheaper.
-But then how many possible shows do you have to miss before you finally upgrade. 

However only you will know if the value of those missed shows and lost clients equals or exceeds the savings on gear you get from waiting.

If it truly is "hype" then when starting from scratch, a good way to start is to buy the used gear from someone established who's bought into the "hype" and is upgrading.
Many posts on this forum are built on some premise that may not reflect a good understanding of the reality of the situation in question.  For another example, there's a guy in the church AV forum who wants a 1080p over analog component DVD player (which as far as I am aware has never existed) so he can keep using his rear-projection TV.  He states that replacing the TV is out of the question, but is apparently willing to go to some effort to work around what is the only realistic way to satisfy good image quality - a new TV and digital HD content.

Your point is partially taken about occasional dismissal of new-fangled technology as being unnecessary, but I am very confident the OP didn't understand the extreme effort and expense to really do 4K imag (especially relative to the very small improvement that makes at any venue viewing distance), and was just hoping to future-proof a bit, which is certainly reasonable.  I think he got good answers to his questions.

Perhaps the best value this forum offers - sometimes to the consternation of the OP - is the answer the OP needs to hear rather than the one they want to hear.

By the way, the reason the Black Magic 4K switcher exists is for producing broadcast content, where the merits of 4K actually exist.  If BlackMagic or some other company can make a 20,000 lumen 4K projector for $5,000 which would enable projecting on 30' wide screens in venues used to 12' wide screens, now we can talk about the 4K revolution.  Until that point, the OP's $15,000 budget isn't going to go very far.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 04:40:10 pm by TJ (Tom) Cornish »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: ~$15k - 4k Wishing List
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 05:25:23 pm »

Many posts on this forum are built on some premise that may not reflect a good understanding of the reality of the situation in question.  For another example, there's a guy in the church AV forum who wants a 1080p over analog component DVD player (which as far as I am aware has never existed) so he can keep using his rear-projection TV.  He states that replacing the TV is out of the question, but is apparently willing to go to some effort to work around what is the only realistic way to satisfy good image quality - a new TV and digital HD content.

Your point is partially taken about occasional dismissal of new-fangled technology as being unnecessary, but I am very confident the OP didn't understand the extreme effort and expense to really do 4K imag (especially relative to the very small improvement that makes at any venue viewing distance), and was just hoping to future-proof a bit, which is certainly reasonable.  I think he got good answers to his questions.

Perhaps the best value this forum offers - sometimes to the consternation of the OP - is the answer the OP needs to hear rather than the one they want to hear.

By the way, the reason the Black Magic 4K switcher exists is for producing broadcast content, where the merits of 4K actually exist.  If BlackMagic or some other company can make a 20,000 lumen 4K projector for $5,000 which would enable projecting on 30' wide screens in venues used to 12' wide screens, now we can talk about the 4K revolution.  Until that point, the OP's $15,000 budget isn't going to go very far.

I didn't get the comparison to Line arrays either.   Nobody disputed HD was an huge improvement over NTSC either.  The acceptance rate was questioned.  Luckily the consumer market drove it.  We still are dealing with HDCP and creeping HDMI standards a decade later. 

Lastly, at the risk of being a prick, the OP doesn't know what a PTZ interface is.  I don't think they comprehend the signal chain concept, exponential increase in storage and network bandwidth to handle 4k.  The colorspace and expanded dynamic range standards are still in flux and projection options are few and far between.  A real 4k home projector is still north of 10k.  I haven't even bothered to see what 10k or 20k would set you back.  Another reality is 15k won't buy you a good HD camera, lens and stabilized mount.

Last reality, we mask off VGA projectors to 16:9 on 13x24 fast fold with a 7k projector with happy clients.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Craig Hauber

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Re: ~$15k - 4k Wishing List
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 01:26:48 pm »

I didn't get the comparison to Line arrays either.   Nobody disputed HD was an huge improvement over NTSC either. 

I was referencing those few that I encountered in 1994 that thought it was all a gimmick and those "tiny" column hangs would never catch on.

Likewise I lost track of how many times I heard "you don't need HD, all the content is NTSC"

Many of those people are no longer in this industry and I don't want to be one of those "so get off my lawn" types.

I see 4k as more than a gimmick but a convergence of video and display formats.  I use a 4k monitor as primary in my office for cad work.  It's nice to be able to do watch video, deal with graphics, make presentations and have it translate to everyone else's display without any downscaling. 

Do you really need it now?  Is the difference noticeable in large projection? -probably not. 
But when you're pulling a record-feed that could be played back on the new 4k TV in the client's boardroom it would look really great and separate you from that other video vendor that doesn't.

Your large-format Imag projection system probably will be fine for a long time to come, but I personally would want to master, record and process at the higher resolution.  That way in the future you just buy whatever new affordable 4 or 8K device that's available, plug it in and go without any needed upgrades or learning-curve for your infrastructure or methods.

Quote
Last reality, we mask off VGA projectors to 16:9 on 13x24 fast fold with a 7k projector with happy clients.

640 x 480?  Really?
surely you mean SXGA?
(or at worst, XGA -I use one of those for a home theater and they make LED walls finer than the pixels I get out of that at 16:9!)
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Craig Hauber
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: ~$15k - 4k Wishing List
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2017, 05:21:15 pm »

I was referencing those few that I encountered in 1994 that thought it was all a gimmick and those "tiny" column hangs would never catch on.

Likewise I lost track of how many times I heard "you don't need HD, all the content is NTSC"

Many of those people are no longer in this industry and I don't want to be one of those "so get off my lawn" types.

I see 4k as more than a gimmick but a convergence of video and display formats.  I use a 4k monitor as primary in my office for cad work.  It's nice to be able to do watch video, deal with graphics, make presentations and have it translate to everyone else's display without any downscaling. 

Do you really need it now?  Is the difference noticeable in large projection? -probably not. 
But when you're pulling a record-feed that could be played back on the new 4k TV in the client's boardroom it would look really great and separate you from that other video vendor that doesn't.

Your large-format Imag projection system probably will be fine for a long time to come, but I personally would want to master, record and process at the higher resolution.  That way in the future you just buy whatever new affordable 4 or 8K device that's available, plug it in and go without any needed upgrades or learning-curve for your infrastructure or methods.

Your mastering and fly pack are a different application than the OP so my comments are not on point.  I do agree if you are going to be working on content captured in 4k with the opportunity to present in 4k you by all means should be mastering, curating and switching that content at 4k.

Quote
640 x 480?  Really?
surely you mean SXGA?
(or at worst, XGA -I use one of those for a home theater and they make LED walls finer than the pixels I get out of that at 16:9!)

Yes XGA and some SXGA - Sorry

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks
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