Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gordon Brinton]

A band I typically provide sound for was opening for a regional act last night. They are good kids with a lot of talent and a good following. I have some history with the bass player (played with his uncle for years) and I try to help them out whenever I can.

I am familiar with the venue and they have a house pa. It's absolutely terrible. 4 - 15" 2way trap boxes set up with one pair about 10' forward of the other pair with no delay. Terrible comb filtering from the horns. Old Mackie 24 channel VLZ. I offered to bring my QRx rig and run sound for nothing, as they took the gig for publicity and weren't making anything. The house guy declined and I heard him talking trash about "these kids wanted to bring in some douche bag sound guy and pa" out in front of the venue during one of his smoke breaks.

The venue has recently employed this house engineer who runs the show. He spent no time with the band while they were setting up, didn't sound check, didn't give them any monitor to speak of, and spent most of the night outside smoking cigarettes while the bands were playing.

The mix was terrible. Couldn't understand any vocals. Rhythm guitar overwhelmingly loud. No bumps on guitar solos. One background singer was ridiculously loud.

It didn't get any better for the headliner, so he want sandbagging the opener either.

So how would you fine folks have handled the situation? What do you recommend the band does different the next time they play there?

They have been asked back. I tried to have a conversation with the house guy but he doesn't want to hear it. Not wanting to create a situation for the band, I just shut my mouth and gave them a full report after the show.

Thanks for any advice,

David

Why didn't you BE for the band on the house rig? Wouldn't the house guy allow it? Even on a crappy system, you might have been able to get a better mix than he did.

[Helge A Bentsen]

Run.

Run very far away and let somebody else deal with this kind of crap.

Or be prepared to take a ton of shit, put on your most polite face and show up with a full rig next time and load in, set up and do your gig on your gear. Bring everything you need including labour.

I've done both on different occasions. #2 landed me a permanent job at a venue.

 

[David Winners]

Thank you for your input everyone. This is a strange situation for me. Hearing how more seasoned professionals would handle the situation is helping me make decisions about how to go forward.

I am not the official BE for this group (yet) as I can only work with them when I'm not booked elsewhere. I'm working with one of my guys to get him trained so he can mix without me there, doubling our capabilities.

The house guy wouldn't even listen to my input, let alone let me mix the show. I didn't want to press the issue and get the band blacklisted. When he was not receptive to talking with me, I just let it go.

Update:

I have talked with the band about this and they have decided that they are going to put it in their rider that they can use their own BE and equipment if the house gear is substandard. They aren't worried about playing this particular venue again unless they get what they want. The club owner immediately tried to book them again right after their set. They brought more patrons into the club than the headliner. The BL said he would get back to the club owner after they had a chance to talk with me about the issues they had with the FOH and monitors.

The BL for the headliner contacted me yesterday about the venue as well, wanting to know how they sounded. They had several people complain to them after the show. I explained the situation to him and he said he wanted to get together and work something out so I could provide for them.

Both bands asked that I contact the club owner and speak with him on their behalf. I'm not comfortable representing them without someone from the band being there to make decisions. I'm not into management. I did reach out to the club owner and ask for a meeting to discuss his pa issues. He replied that the guys running sound have a lot of experience in live music, and he would take any suggestions I had to them. I asked for a face to face at the club so I could walk them through and demonstrate my suggestions but he refused.

So now neither band will play there without me and my rig. It's a small venue with a crowded stage. Their stacks of trap boxes are in the way and it will be challenging to work in that club if the house guys are there, but I'm going to do it given the opportunity. I think that mixing a good show on good gear that sounds noticeably better than the house rig will only better my reputation. I think I can cover the whole room with one properly aimed top box and a pair of subs so the set up hassle would be minimal. The ceiling is very high so I can get pretty even coverage with a tilter on a crank stand.

I have meetings today with both bands to discuss this club and providing for them full time in the future. I may need to put another rig together and get my guy up to speed with the young band so I can cover the larger act when there are scheduling conflicts. I have gear I can rent in the mean time if necessary.

[Stelios Mac]

I was just typing as you posted
Sounds like it's all coming together. The fact that neither band will play without you and your rig means they've realized what they're dealing with. But I'd say it's up to the bands to make that clear to the club owner, not you.
Good luck!

[David Winners]

I was just typing as you posted
Sounds like it's all coming together. The fact that neither band will play without you and your rig means they've realized what they're dealing with. But I'd say it's up to the bands to make that clear to the club owner, not you.
Good luck!

Thanks!

And I'm staying out of it with the club owner unless he approaches me. I'll let the bands convince him because he has a reason to listen to them. He wants them to play there. I'm just another guy that thinks he knows how to run sound and has opinions he doesn't understand. I'm sure he hears from plenty of us.

[Chris Grimshaw]

I'll let the bands convince him because he has a reason to listen to them.

Probably the right thing to do.

Perhaps you could invite the club owner along to an event you're doing sound for..?
If there's an event at his place and yours at the same night, just ask them over for half an hour. I'm sure the difference will immediately become apparent.

Chris

[David Winners]

Probably the right thing to do.

Perhaps you could invite the club owner along to an event you're doing sound for..?
If there's an event at his place and yours at the same night, just ask them over for half an hour. I'm sure the difference will immediately become apparent.

Chris

That's a great idea. There is a club about 2 blocks away where I'm running sound in a couple weeks. Unfortunately, it's during the week and there isn't a show at his place on that day. I'm not sure he cares enough to be bothered, but extending an invitation couldn't do any harm.

[Tim McCulloch]

The cynic and pessimist in me says the club owner doesn't care.  The only sound he's interested in is the sound of the cash register.

Do not further engage with the owner.  You do not represent the bands.  You are neither agent nor manager nor member so you have zero clout.  The only things that will come from a meeting with him will be elevated blood pressure and a concrete resolve to never set foot in the place.  The bands have the attraction for the patrons, not the sound guy so let the bands insist on Burger King - their way.  If the owner is adamant his guy & gear should do the show the bands have to make the business decisions that make sense for them.

Owners/managers like this guy are part of the reason I don't work in bars or "clubs" unless there is some kind of emergency.  I've had local acts ask me to do their gigs and I politely price myself out of the show.  "Guys, I get $350 to mix and I know it's a bar gig so I'll do your show for $250..." knowing they're getting $300, "but I understand if that's not in your budget and wish you the best."

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

  "Guys, I get $350 to mix and I know it's a bar gig so I'll do your show for $250..." knowing they're getting $300, "but I understand if that's not in your budget and wish you the best."

I normally charge $350 to mix, unless it's a bar band, then I charge $700.

[Dave Garoutte]

I normally charge $350 to mix, unless it's a bar band, then I charge $700.

Niiice!

My experience is that the employees tend to mirror the attitudes of their boss.
If the boss cared about the sound, he would hire (and pay for) someone that cared about the sound.

[ProSoundWeb Community]