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[David Winners]

A band I typically provide sound for was opening for a regional act last night. They are good kids with a lot of talent and a good following. I have some history with the bass player (played with his uncle for years) and I try to help them out whenever I can.

I am familiar with the venue and they have a house pa. It's absolutely terrible. 4 - 15" 2way trap boxes set up with one pair about 10' forward of the other pair with no delay. Terrible comb filtering from the horns. Old Mackie 24 channel VLZ. I offered to bring my QRx rig and run sound for nothing, as they took the gig for publicity and weren't making anything. The house guy declined and I heard him talking trash about "these kids wanted to bring in some douche bag sound guy and pa" out in front of the venue during one of his smoke breaks.

The venue has recently employed this house engineer who runs the show. He spent no time with the band while they were setting up, didn't sound check, didn't give them any monitor to speak of, and spent most of the night outside smoking cigarettes while the bands were playing.

The mix was terrible. Couldn't understand any vocals. Rhythm guitar overwhelmingly loud. No bumps on guitar solos. One background singer was ridiculously loud.

It didn't get any better for the headliner, so he want sandbagging the opener either.

So how would you fine folks have handled the situation? What do you recommend the band does different the next time they play there?

They have been asked back. I tried to have a conversation with the house guy but he doesn't want to hear it. Not wanting to create a situation for the band, I just shut my mouth and gave them a full report after the show.

Thanks for any advice,

David

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

They shouldn't play there again. If the owner asks why they should reference your report on the behaviour of their house engineer, what he's doing sounds like career suicide to me.

I feel there is always 2 sides to a story and maybe the house engineer has some issue with the way the event was handled but the correct procedure for resolving a dispute is to take a step higher up on the food chain.

If the owner/management won't address the bands issues and they have a following as you say I don't think that it would be a loss for them to not play the venue, also they had to put up with that and not get paid?

[Brian Jojade]

Are you their official BE, or are you just their go to sound guy when they don't have anyone else?

In either case, I can understand you wanting a band that you regularly work with to sound as good as possible.  The thing is, not all venues are set up for quality, and they wouldn't know quality if it hit them in the face. 

If every band that plays in this particular venue sounds horrible, will that significantly hinder the band's reputation?  Probably not. The band has 3 choices. 1. Accept the jobs at the venue as is, and take the exposure.  Probably the best route for a growing band doing opening acts.
2. Accept jobs at the venue, but require in the rider that they provide a different sound system and engineer for the event.
3. Choose not to accept jobs at the venue that is too difficult to work with.

As far as your part in this, be very careful that what you do doesn't get them blacklisted so that the choice isn't theirs to make.

[Dave Bednarski]

Is there an opportunity to roll in your own mixer next time, do a minimal setup... and send them a feed for the PA/monitor mixes?

The guy sounds lazy... so maybe he will be OK walking on and doing less?  I mean, worse case... you unplug a dozen cables from your console... they fall on the floor and he has to sort it out and re-patch?

[Steve Crump]

A band I typically provide sound for was opening for a regional act last night. They are good kids with a lot of talent and a good following. I have some history with the bass player (played with his uncle for years) and I try to help them out whenever I can.

I am familiar with the venue and they have a house pa. It's absolutely terrible. 4 - 15" 2way trap boxes set up with one pair about 10' forward of the other pair with no delay. Terrible comb filtering from the horns. Old Mackie 24 channel VLZ. I offered to bring my QRx rig and run sound for nothing, as they took the gig for publicity and weren't making anything. The house guy declined and I heard him talking trash about "these kids wanted to bring in some douche bag sound guy and pa" out in front of the venue during one of his smoke breaks.

The venue has recently employed this house engineer who runs the show. He spent no time with the band while they were setting up, didn't sound check, didn't give them any monitor to speak of, and spent most of the night outside smoking cigarettes while the bands were playing.

The mix was terrible. Couldn't understand any vocals. Rhythm guitar overwhelmingly loud. No bumps on guitar solos. One background singer was ridiculously loud.

It didn't get any better for the headliner, so he want sandbagging the opener either.

So how would you fine folks have handled the situation? What do you recommend the band does different the next time they play there?

They have been asked back. I tried to have a conversation with the house guy but he doesn't want to hear it. Not wanting to create a situation for the band, I just shut my mouth and gave them a full report after the show.

Thanks for any advice,

David

The venue management doesn't realize it sounds like crap?
The best time to bring it up is during the show. Ask someone in management to come to the floor and point it what is going on.
After the fact they are just going to think you're complaining for no reason.
Other than that I agree with Brian.

Just like a lot of guys here I get to see both sides. I travel with a band when they are out and own a small listening room that host touring acts.  I have been in venues with a band and try to give the house engineer cues (before the show) to help with the night and have literally been told "so you want me to do my job". I have seen the house engineer walk outside to BS and the band start jamming and lead vocals just disappear, had a house engineer get the band going and go to bar and drink.

The other side: we have a QRX system and use the Midas M series in our listening room and continuously get praises from the bands and patrons, but I have had an artist who contacted us and wouldn't have it any other way, he wanted to bring his Bose "stick". I let him, once he got to the venue and saw our setup he used our front of house, but still wanted his Bose for him a monitor.
Anytime (which has only been twice) a band brings their own engineer, I completely cooperate, makes my life easier. He knows the band and if I were being an _ss and wouldn't work with their guy and the show went to _hit I would be to blame.

But, if a band or someone representing the band called me after the fact and were complaining about the show that I or the other house guy worked, I would probably never book them again. Since they didn't voice their concerns that night I would just think they being high maintenance.

[Tim Weaver]

NSFW-language.

But, man! How true is this video!

https://www.facebook.com/coslive/videos/1802884299976801/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED





In your situation, my guess is that the house guy has that job for one reason and one reason only. He's cheap. Nobody else will work there for what the venue wants to pay. The venue's cheapskatedness shows in the quality of the "pa" and in the staff they have.

So, while it would be OK to walk in and say "hi, I'm the opening band's engineer", it's not really cool to be the opener and try to bring in some other pa. Its way too much work for everyone involved, especially if you'r doing it for free.

I've played in venues like this where there is a distributed system with no alignment.  I either try to unplug a pair of speakers, or run (my own) extra dsp. I used to carry a couple of those tiny QSC dsp's that were 2x2. I try to do these things while the house engineer isn't looking. Then I put it back to normal when its his turn.

[Steve Crump]

NSFW-language.

But, man! How true is this video!

https://www.facebook.com/coslive/videos/1802884299976801/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

 





In your situation, my guess is that the house guy has that job for one reason and one reason only. He's cheap. Nobody else will work there for what the venue wants to pay. The venue's cheapskatedness shows in the quality of the "pa" and in the staff they have.

So, while it would be OK to walk in and say "hi, I'm the opening band's engineer", it's not really cool to be the opener and try to bring in some other pa. Its way too much work for everyone involved, especially if you'r doing it for free.

I've played in venues like this where there is a distributed system with no alignment.  I either try to unplug a pair of speakers, or run (my own) extra dsp. I used to carry a couple of those tiny QSC dsp's that were 2x2. I try to do these things while the house engineer isn't looking. Then I put it back to normal when its his turn.

That reminds me of the guy (even with the same hair) who put me in my place when I was out with the band.

[Tim Weaver]

We've all met that guy at one time or another. He is a recurring nuisance in this industry.

[Jay Marr]

I played in an original hard rock band that did really well for a while....played lots of big shows and festivals....and also played lots of clubs with garbage PA like you mentioned (and grumpy house engineers).

We always required that we be allowed to use our own engineer, and 99% of rooms were always fine with it.  Our engineer, who's a great friend, is also a pro and does FOH for plenty of touring acts.
He would always makes us sound as good as that PA was capable of...and most times we sounded better than the headlining national act.  This always lead to the management of clubs asking him what he did to get such a great sound from their gear...and made them realize that their house engineer was incompetent.

In one instance (that I'm aware of) it lead to the room seeking out a new house engineer.

My advice, discuss with the club management if you can come mix on their system.  Let them hear how bad their house guy is.

[John Rutirasiri]

They shouldn't play there again.

Totally agree.  Yes it's tough to break onto the scene, but if the band is talented, they will be welcomed at other venues.  Why rush to kill themselves with crappy sound there?

It's probably not the first time someone has complained about the house engineer there.  If the venue wants to keep patrons coming, they'll get smart.

My advice to the OP:  (1) advise the band to NOT plat there, and (2) don't offer.  That place is making plenty of money with all the alcohol sales, and not having to pay the bands.  The band also needs to know your worth and value.

John R.

[ProSoundWeb Community]