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Author Topic: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?  (Read 1329 times)

Dave Coulter

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 02:14:27 pm »

My jobs are mostly speech, plus music and playout videos which can be preset.  Quite often I'm taking stems from a house A1 to remix for broadcast/streaming, so depending on the other mixer I'll get very different levels coming down the same lines, and readjusting gain (for consistent dynamics response as much as any other reason) has just become habit. No, I've never heard it on faders.

I've had a chance to demo several other consoles lately, and yes they all seem to have some degree of zipper noise, but they present differently. The Impact actually generates noise, where with some you just hear the steps, which is no big deal.  I'm just surprised because I've never found myself having to work around it with the QL1 or the M32, and now it's really jumping out at me. I suppose in the end it's just a matter of technique and choosing when to make the adjustments.
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Steve Ferreira

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 02:44:35 pm »

Are you and the A1 setting gain structures before hand? Working corporate events in the past I have never ridden the gains just faders. Is the A1 sending you an aux, matrix?
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Dave Coulter

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 03:38:27 pm »

Are you and the A1 setting gain structures before hand? Working corporate events in the past I have never ridden the gains just faders. Is the A1 sending you an aux, matrix?

It's always different - different venues and operators.  My main client likes a very tight dynamic range, and I'm putting compression on every stage to even things out... I find myself riding gain more than usual because I'm trying to slot it into the first stage of dynamics just right. Their consoles seem to just have audible "steps" rather than noise, and that really hasn't bothered me.  As I look for a new personal console I'm just running into some that are actually noisy.  I'm surprised what I'm hearing in the Impact doesn't distract more people.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 04:51:29 pm »

It's always different - different venues and operators.  My main client likes a very tight dynamic range, and I'm putting compression on every stage to even things out... I find myself riding gain more than usual because I'm trying to slot it into the first stage of dynamics just right. Their consoles seem to just have audible "steps" rather than noise, and that really hasn't bothered me.  As I look for a new personal console I'm just running into some that are actually noisy.  I'm surprised what I'm hearing in the Impact doesn't distract more people.
Since the customer is always right I won't advise you to not mix on the trims, but it could be a design trade-off based on the expectation that trims would be set up ahead of time and then rarely re-adjusted during the performance.

I believe mic preamps exist that do not exhibit gain trim artifacts, but there could be any number of valid reasons why one wasn't used for that application.

There would probably have to be a lot of trimming going on before the audience would notice, but artifacts showing up in the talent's monitor mix could be a problem, as the gain trim would be pre- everything. 

Good luck...

JR
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 10:58:29 pm »

For what it's worth, I haven't noticed this on my Allen&Heath GLD systems, but I don't typically mix with gain knobs, so I won't bet my life on it.
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Dave Coulter

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2017, 10:45:24 am »

Thanks very much for all the feedback. For the record I'm really not "mixing on the trims", but I do find myself readjusting them for each phase of a show... new talent on the same mic, slight readjustment of the trims sometimes. Quiet single speaker means sometimes that might be audible.

Outside of the M32R, the other best sounding trim in the $2000-$2500 range was actually the QU16 so far. Very quiet zipping. 
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brian maddox

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2017, 12:16:50 pm »

Thanks very much for all the feedback. For the record I'm really not "mixing on the trims", but I do find myself readjusting them for each phase of a show... new talent on the same mic, slight readjustment of the trims sometimes. Quiet single speaker means sometimes that might be audible.

Outside of the M32R, the other best sounding trim in the $2000-$2500 range was actually the QU16 so far. Very quiet zipping.

Gotta hop in and verify that my friend Dave [who i've worked with a number of times] does, indeed, know what he is doing and isn't using his trims to mix on.   :)

***Sidenote:  "Hi Dave!.  Welcome to the Forum!***

And yes, out in corpy broadcast world the input gain structure can often change dramatically, especially since you rarely, if ever, get to sound check with the Actual Talent before the show.  In PA world those trim changes can be made fairly easily and are usually totally inaudible.  But when you're dealing with a Broadcast Signal that is MegaCompressedtm it gets a little trickier.  If the Soundcraft is inducing audible noise during those changes, even if only at a low level, that is a pretty big problem.

Good thread, Dave.  And good info on the QU-series.  I've not had a chance to touch one yet.  Maybe i need to get out more...  :)
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brian maddox
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2017, 12:53:03 pm »

Thanks very much for all the feedback. For the record I'm really not "mixing on the trims", but I do find myself readjusting them for each phase of a show... new talent on the same mic, slight readjustment of the trims sometimes. Quiet single speaker means sometimes that might be audible.

Outside of the M32R, the other best sounding trim in the $2000-$2500 range was actually the QU16 so far. Very quiet zipping.
Yes, these can be made to change mic pre amp gain quietly, so that is apparently a design feature you will need to confirm when choosing between models if your application demands that. I would not presume that all brand XYZ do it one way or the other.   

There are surely enough users of different models around here to provide some hands on feedback for specific models.

JR

PS: This is me being gentle.  8)
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Christopher Irwin

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Re: Soundcraft Impact Gain Control Artifacts?
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2017, 03:48:37 pm »


There are surely enough users of different models around here to provide some hands on feedback for specific models.


I just mixed on an SiImpact this weekend and didn't notice anything, even with a few gain changes mid show. That said, it wasn't the cleanest system and wasn't corporate work, which I do about half the time.  I also regularly mix on SiPerformer and SiCompact consoles and have never noticed noise from changing the gain.  That said, the M7 change in gain staging drives me bonkers, but maybe that's because I am looking for it...
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