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Author Topic: Youth Room SM80F & Acoustic Treatment - Previously: It depends always the answer  (Read 5932 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: "It depends" is always the answer.
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 05:56:10 pm »

This is very weird. I've noticed it as well on many of Scott Holtzman's posts. Now it is happening to me  >:(

I was on Chrome on my desktop when I wrote that post and it was "fine". Now when viewing the post at work on IE the post was definitely messed up. I deleted the text sizing code, so it should be fine. But those are some strange issues  ???


Same here, it renders well on Chrome and does that on other browsers.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: "It depends" is always the answer.
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2018, 10:12:34 am »

Well we fixed the dreaded 'tiny text' issue last year!

&&

Got some traction on the install. Acoustic treatment & sound system & sound board (SQ6).

Going with SM80F -best bang for buck-

I modeled the SM80F in direct, noticed some interesting things!

Seems the freq response is smoothed out. (compared to SM80)
There is a boost around 10-12 kHz (compared to SM80)

Anything I need to be aware of?

---

Would a different Danley amp than the suggested 20k4 work? (10k4?)

Trying to save money, ~10k on acoustics and ~10k on sound (amp/speaker alone) is a good chunk of money. I'd really love to stick with Danley amps & black box presets - but the 20k4 seems like a giant waste of an amp for one speaker.

PLD 4.5 has such bang-for-buck...

If I had to 'roll-my-own' settings what is the recommended HPF & crossover?
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I'm just a guy trying to do the next right thing.

This business is for people with too much energy for desk jobs and too much brain for labor jobs. - Scott Helmke

Ivan Beaver

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Re: "It depends" is always the answer.
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2018, 05:18:03 pm »



---

Would a different Danley amp than the suggested 20k4 work? (10k4?)

Trying to save money, ~10k on acoustics and ~10k on sound (amp/speaker alone) is a good chunk of money. I'd really love to stick with Danley amps & black box presets - but the 20k4 seems like a giant waste of an amp for one speaker.

PLD 4.5 has such bang-for-buck...

If I had to 'roll-my-own' settings what is the recommended HPF & crossover?
The 10K would give you 3dB less bass output.  So the question is, would you have enough.

Consider that the SM80F has the low freq capability of 3-4 normal 2x18" subs.

So with less power, you would take away 1 of those (give or take) so 2-3 2x18" subs.

So use that as your basis for output.

Something else to consider.  Using another amp (since it seems you don't need 4 channels) and use the Danley SC48 processor.  It has all the same processing and limiting.  You will just need to adjust the limiters for the gain of the particular amp you are using.  There is a paper on that.

Regarding DSP settings.  Sometimes they transfer between different platforms, other times they are off by QUITE a bit.

I have seen xover freq be almost an octave different.  that is HUGE.

I have seen Qs of filters be off by a factor of 2 (twice as wide or half as wide as they should be).  I have seen amplitude be off by a couple of dB.

I have also seen them be "dead nuts on".  So you must be careful when just sticking in numbers and "hoping" it will be the same.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: "It depends" is always the answer.
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2018, 06:36:39 pm »

The 10K would give you 3dB less bass output.  So the question is, would you have enough.

Consider that the SM80F has the low freq capability of 3-4 normal 2x18" subs.
So with less power, you would take away 1 of those (give or take) so 2-3 2x18" subs.
So use that as your basis for output.

Probably, modeled @ 18ft in the air ... actually I thought I understood the SPL levels of direct, but now I don't.

I get 118dBz @ my first mic so for the sub frequencies I imagine +6dB for listener in ground plane. -3dB with 10k4 = 121dB That's much less than the 2x KW181's they have currently. Or am I doing my calculations wrong?

Something else to consider.  Using another amp (since it seems you don't need 4 channels) and use the Danley SC48 processor.  It has all the same processing and limiting.  You will just need to adjust the limiters for the gain of the particular amp you are using.  There is a paper on that.

Good thought, I pulled some pricing from my distributor; seems like such a waste to go with PLD 4.5 @ ~1.8k (street) & SC48 @ ~2k = ~4k when 10k4 is ~6k :/

-Disclaimer not a dealer of Danley, best guesses on pricing.

Regarding DSP settings.  Sometimes they transfer between different platforms, other times they are off by QUITE a bit.
I have seen xover freq be almost an octave different.  that is HUGE.
I have seen Qs of filters be off by a factor of 2 (twice as wide or half as wide as they should be).  I have seen amplitude be off by a couple of dB.

I have also seen them be "dead nuts on".  So you must be careful when just sticking in numbers and "hoping" it will be the same.

Copy that.
You've taught me well, MEASURE ;)

That said, most of your speakers have in the spec sheet a manufacture recommended HPF & xover.

What's the gut numbers?

Based on the spec sheet, i'm guessing @:
38 BW 24dB/oct
120Hz LR 12dB/oct
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I'm just a guy trying to do the next right thing.

This business is for people with too much energy for desk jobs and too much brain for labor jobs. - Scott Helmke
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