Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mark Wilkinson]

Those of you who have amps with digital inputs (AES), do you use them? Particularly those who are bi-amping or tri-amping?
If so, how do you get multiple digital feeds to them?

I got some ICEpower  amps with AES inputs to play around with...(they are the only amps I have with digital input.)
The noise floor from my mains is dramatically reduced when the amps are fed from the AES output of an x-32, versus being fed from the x-32 analog outs.
And sound seems a bit cleaner, with improved transients.

This works ok for one simple two-way speaker test.
But how can I get post-crossover AES feeds to the appropriate amp channels, for a stereo 3 or 4 way setup?
I wish there was a lounge level mixer with a bank of assignable/routeable AES outputs...

Past that, anybody know a way to convert x-32 usb, or AES50, outputs to AES channels? 

[Brian Jojade]

The X32 only has 2 AES/EBU output channels to work with.

You can route anything you want to the AES/EBU outputs. The patch is located in the Aux Out section of the board.

You could route through a matrix to give yourself a crossover function, 2 way mono.  Without extra hardware, that's it.

[Dave Garoutte]

The Souncraft Mini stagebox 32 has 8 channels of AES out (4 XLRs).

Driverack Venue 360 has 2 AES/EBU inputs (4 channels) that can be routed normally to the 6 analog outs.
Depending on the quality of the D/A converters, keeping it digital for as long as possible is good.

[Robert Lofgren]

Aren't there adat-->aes3 converters?

[Andrew Henderson]

There isn't a cheap way, but there are definitely ways to stay in the digital realm all the way to your amps. The S32 stagebox has 2 AES/EBU outputs (4 channels). Are you using the built-in crossover filters on the X32? If so, you could just route the same busses you're using for your analog main and sub feeds to the 4 AES channels on the S32.

There are other ways, but they're just as expensive, and more for niche needs. E.G. Purchase the ADAT option card for the X32, then use a digital format converter like the RME ADI-4 to convert 8 channels of ADAT to AES.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mark Wilkinson]

There isn't a cheap way, but there are definitely ways to stay in the digital realm all the way to your amps. The S32 stagebox has 2 AES/EBU outputs (4 channels). Are you using the built-in crossover filters on the X32? If so, you could just route the same busses you're using for your analog main and sub feeds to the 4 AES channels on the S32.

There are other ways, but they're just as expensive, and more for niche needs. E.G. Purchase the ADAT option card for the X32, then use a digital format converter like the RME ADI-4 to convert 8 channels of ADAT to AES.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thx all,

@Brian, yep, that's the way I've been using the x-32 just to see how the simple 2-way case would work

@Andrew, that's what I keep finding...no cheap way to do it !

I'd really like to have at least 3 AES/EBU (6 channels) of output. My mains are 3-way. Subs don't seem to benefit as much from staying digital, but I guess ideally it would be nice to have a 4th AES for them.

Sometimes I use the crossovers on the x-32 matrix and main outputs. But mostly I've been using a bank of 3 miniDSP openDRCs, and also playing with PC convolution routed thru the x-32's usb card.

No matter what I try it seems staying digital as long as possible.....minimizing AD/DA conversions.... makes a positive difference.

[Dave Guilford]

No matter what I try it seems staying digital as long as possible.....minimizing AD/DA conversions.... makes a positive difference.

Soundcraft mini stagebox 32r > cat5 > expression 3 > itech amps

CLEAN

[Andrew Henderson]

Yep. Or just get amps with Dante capability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ed Hall]

Does the AES/EBU daisy chain? Could you come out of the X32 with one AES/EBU (2 channels LR) into and amp with AES/EBU and daisy into another amp also with digital and so on. Then use the amps DSP to act as the crossover, only feeding the speakers with the appropriate portion of the audio spectrum?

[Mark Wilkinson]

Does the AES/EBU daisy chain? Could you come out of the X32 with one AES/EBU (2 channels LR) into and amp with AES/EBU and daisy into another amp also with digital and so on. Then use the amps DSP to act as the crossover, only feeding the speakers with the appropriate portion of the audio spectrum?

Yes, I think daisy chaining and letting the amps dsp provide crossover and all the other speaker management functions, is what makes sense for staying digital in normal usage.

I've been using  external processing for better tuning capability, for crossover/eq/inter-driver delay, .....hence the need for more digital routing.

[Andrew Henderson]

Yes, I think daisy chaining and letting the amps dsp provide crossover and all the other speaker management functions, is what makes sense for staying digital in normal usage.

I've been using  external processing for better tuning capability, for crossover/eq/inter-driver delay, .....hence the need for more digital routing.

All it takes is a bunch of money!

[Steve Ferreira]

Soundcraft mini stagebox 32r > cat5 > expression 3 > itech amps

CLEAN

This is my setup and works great. Daisy chain from the first amp into the next.

[Ed Hall]

All it takes is a bunch of money!

So I can just start pasting $100 bills to the equipment and it will all work perfectly?  LOL

[Ed Hall]

Yes, I think daisy chaining and letting the amps dsp provide crossover and all the other speaker management functions, is what makes sense for staying digital in normal usage.

I've been using  external processing for better tuning capability, for crossover/eq/inter-driver delay, .....hence the need for more digital routing.

Thanks. I'm not there yet but it will influence my purchasing decisions in the future.

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

If your looking to spend money I know for a fact Meyer makes an AES in and Out DSP unit. Should be around $8k maybe less since its been dropped to legacy. You could also check lake and such other manufacturers they should have similar products that will replace you current DSP with equally capable dsp that bad the ins and outs you need.

Cheaper then that the other methods are probably your best option.

I'm not sure if an active AES splitter exists that is any good but maybe that is an option?

[Mark Wilkinson]

If your looking to spend money I know for a fact Meyer makes an AES in and Out DSP unit. Should be around $8k maybe less since its been dropped to legacy. You could also check lake and such other manufacturers they should have similar products that will replace you current DSP with equally capable dsp that bad the ins and outs you need.

Cheaper then that the other methods are probably your best option.

I'm not sure if an active AES splitter exists that is any good but maybe that is an option?

Thank you !   I have a little money to spend, but nowhere near the cost of the used meyer.

Right now, best option I've found appears to be a used lynx aurora studio box, that would give analog and aes routing, and also high quality AD/DA converters.  A new model of aurora is just starting to ship, ... I'm hoping some folks want to sell their existing units to trade up......

[Geoff Doane]

Thank you !   I have a little money to spend, but nowhere near the cost of the used meyer.

If all you need is copies of the same AES stream (DSP in the amps), this box will do the trick.

http://www.markertek.com/product/he-aesdigda2x4/henry-engineering-aes-digital-da-2x4-zero-delay-aes-distribution-system

It's just a simple distribution amplifier.  It should reshape the waveform, but doesn't do any re-clocking or anything else that results in a delay.

GTD

[Mark Wilkinson]

If all you need is copies of the same AES stream (DSP in the amps), this box will do the trick.

http://www.markertek.com/product/he-aesdigda2x4/henry-engineering-aes-digital-da-2x4-zero-delay-aes-distribution-system

It's just a simple distribution amplifier.  It should reshape the waveform, but doesn't do any re-clocking or anything else that results in a delay.

GTD

Thanks Geoff,    Yes, I have a similar distribution amplifier for splitting the x-32 aes output => inputting 3 aes speaker management processors.  Like you say, simple, but works great if all that's needed.

@ Dave & Dave,      thanks for pointing to the soundcraft mini-stagebox setup. It looks clean indeed.
 
I looked into the possibility  of the soundcraft mini-stagebox compatability with the x-32 family, but found a no-go. 
I did find the Midas DL-155 however, which would allow 8 route-able aes channels.

Anybody have any experience with the DL-155?

[Mark Olsen]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't BSS London make DSPs that have AES input / output cards?

We have Londons in all our facilities that we use with analog ins and outs, and that works great for us.
This would give you lots of options for EQs, delays, crossovers etc.

Mark

[Frank Koenig]

Hi Mark, PM sent. --Frank

[Mark Wilkinson]

Ok, to followup...
... trying to find how to get more AES outputs from an x-32, I ended up with a Midas DL-155 stagebox (from Mike Pyle, thx).

And thanks to all who helped via reply, particularly to the Soundcraft guys who pointed out their mini-stagebox r's.
That led me to look at the behringer I/O boxes once again for something similar,.... and striking out ..... then to the Midas boxes.

Found that the DL-155 is 8 analog in, 8 analog out, 8 AES in, and 8 AES out.

Works like a charm with my x-32c.
I'm definitely a happy camper, let's me use stereo 4-way outboard digital speaker management, and minimize AD/DA conversions.
And gain some more stage I/O.
Best sound I've heard yet.

At first, I would have traded the 8 digital inputs for 8 more analog inputs, but now that I've used it a bit, I already appreciate some of the unique routing opportunities the digital inputs allow.

Maybe worth a good look if you're wanting to expand the x-32's digital routing capability....

[ProSoundWeb Community]