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Author Topic: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems  (Read 1575 times)

Caleb Johnson

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New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« on: April 01, 2017, 01:11:17 am »

Hello all. I just recently found this forum and I'm hoping you all can be very helpful.

I will start by saying IM VERY UNQUALIFIED!!  I read some threads and most the the terms are just over my head!! I've been running our board for probably ten years but with ZERO formal training. I've stumbled through and have things mostly set where they sound good to all of our untrained ears and I leave it be! Lol.

But I'm trying.

Our church is ready to add more wireless.
Current setup is a Yamaha 20ch board that runs through a mackie 8ch mixer/amp (more help with that later)

Current wireless is an audio technica 2000 for the pulpit mic and a peavy body PAC that is used on a saxophone. All else is wired.

We are looking to add 5 wireless mics. They will mostly be used by kids from 4-15 years old. Some use by visiting groups and stuff as well though.
Sound board is located stage left. I run it while playing bass. Entire band is in that corner.

Sanctuary is 50x60 and 25' tall.

No rack mounts or anything currently. It all just sits on a glass shelf unit.

I'm really not sure where to go here.

We have a member willing to donate for the cost. He is willing to go up to $4000 but I really feel like that amount would be excessive for this use for our congregation. I would like to keep It under $2500 to allow the funds to go other places. We probably don't have $5000 in our entire set up and that has all be collected over 20 years so this is a big purchase for us.  We are a small country church of 30 people many of which are young aspiring singers!

Sure- which one will suffice
Senheisser- how is the new xsw-1?
Audio technica -2000 or 3000 series?


Also maybe a small rack cabinet for all of it?

I just need help. I just actually got back from a church service st a church with the quad set from vocopro that is so tempting for many. They just raved about how they like them.....too bad they sounded like trash!!  Lol. I deffinstly want something quality.

Also I'm located about an hour east of St Louis if anyone has the heart of a teacher!!!

Thanks
Caleb
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 01:27:17 am by Caleb Johnson »
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Brandon Scopel

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2017, 01:17:01 am »

Real quick, add your last name to your disayed name so this thread doesn't get locked

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

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Caleb Johnson

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2017, 01:21:54 am »

Real quick, add your last name to your disayed name so this thread doesn't get locked

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Thank you sir. Sorry about that.
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Isaac South

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2017, 08:20:22 am »

With the help of this forum, I just purchased 6 Shure QLX D24 wireless Mics (SM58 Cartridge).  Those are about $1,000 a piece. That may be a little out of your price range. But very good Mics that should last a very long time. The other mic that was recommended to me is the Sennheiser EW 1xx G3. Super good mic.  Approx $500 to $600 a piece.

Something to consider is getting a power distributer and antenna splitter along with these. It's not a ton of extra money and is VERY much worth it.

Having said all of this...being that "close" to St. Louis, I'm sure you could find someone to help you out. (Our church is hours from a bigger city unfortunately) so this forum was like a lifeline for me.

Anyways best of luck. These guys/gals on here won't lead you astray.



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Caleb Johnson

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2017, 08:52:33 am »

With the help of this forum, I just purchased 6 Shure QLX D24 wireless Mics (SM58 Cartridge).  Those are about $1,000 a piece. That may be a little out of your price range. But very good Mics that should last a very long time. The other mic that was recommended to me is the Sennheiser EW 1xx G3. Super good mic.  Approx $500 to $600 a piece.

Something to consider is getting a power distributer and antenna splitter along with these. It's not a ton of extra money and is VERY much worth it.

Having said all of this...being that "close" to St. Louis, I'm sure you could find someone to help you out. (Our church is hours from a bigger city unfortunately) so this forum was like a lifeline for me.

Anyways best of luck. These guys/gals on here won't lead you astray.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thx Isaac. I've read your thread entirely and got some great help from it. I didn't even know things like the power management and antenna system you got existed!!!  I still don't know anything about them but at least I know they are there.

I've checked out the ew135 a bit. I don't really know a ton about it. It's probably st the absolute top of my price range and would keep me from getting some of the other things we need like some mic cables, stands, a condenser mic, and the rack system similar to you.

So I'm wondering about the xsw 1 or the xsw 35. The would fit a lot better price wise for us. Problem is that I just don't know the differences in the models.

The sure I've been checking out is the blx 288 with sm58 mics. It's a dual unit so 2 of those and then a single would get me there I think. I've been told to stay away from the PG stuff so that's why I thought the SM mics.

I also just found the audio technica system 10 pro. Dual mic set up. Antennas in the front (perfect line of site to singers) and the cost is right. Digital is new to me, but I can say with confidence that there is no wifi in the building and never will be. Also nothing closer than 500' with a wifi signal. 
Thx again
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 10:52:38 am by Caleb Johnson »
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Bill McKelvey

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2017, 06:46:44 pm »

Snip!

I also just found the audio technica system 10 pro. Dual mic set up. Antennas in the front (perfect line of site to singers) and the cost is right. Digital is new to me, but I can say with confidence that there is no wifi in the building and never will be. Also nothing closer than 500' with a wifi signal. 
Thx again

No WiFi except all of the cellphones that the congregation will have there searching for something to latch onto.
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2017, 05:59:36 am »

Thx Isaac. I've read your thread entirely and got some great help from it. I didn't even know things like the power management and antenna system you got existed!!!  I still don't know anything about them but at least I know they are there.

I've checked out the ew135 a bit. I don't really know a ton about it. It's probably st the absolute top of my price range and would keep me from getting some of the other things we need like some mic cables, stands, a condenser mic, and the rack system similar to you.

So I'm wondering about the xsw 1 or the xsw 35. The would fit a lot better price wise for us. Problem is that I just don't know the differences in the models.

The sure I've been checking out is the blx 288 with sm58 mics. It's a dual unit so 2 of those and then a single would get me there I think. I've been told to stay away from the PG stuff so that's why I thought the SM mics.

I also just found the audio technica system 10 pro. Dual mic set up. Antennas in the front (perfect line of site to singers) and the cost is right. Digital is new to me, but I can say with confidence that there is no wifi in the building and never will be. Also nothing closer than 500' with a wifi signal. 
Thx again

Stay away from anything in the 2.4 or 5 GHz wifi ranges, won't be pretty.

If you are going with the BLX stuff get the rack mounted BLX-R version(Think that's what it was), I've also heard good things about the Sennheiser units and seem to be a good fit for your price range.

Do wait for the XSW-2 though, sennheiser's website claims that it is available from April so should release very soon, should be in a similar price range to the XSW-1 but with some improvements, seems from a quick look at pictures that it will have external antennas which is amazing.

Other than that the other topic that your read through has all the information you are looking for.

I know you are set on wireless and this is fine but is there any reason why you do not want to stay wired, your stage area seems pretty small.

An off topic recommendation on the other stuff, get decent cables made up(check the lab lounge for some topics on that) and Hercules is a good brand for mic stands(haven't used their musics stands but if it's the same quality it will be a good buy as well) that isn't that expensive.
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Word & Life Church

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Caleb Johnson

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2017, 05:41:09 pm »

Here is some more info.
Current wireless freq are 655-680 and 478.550

Here is a pic of my current set up.


I'm thinking of adding a rack on the top shelf where the two wireless receivers set now.   

Center stage is probably 20' left of me and 8 feet forward.
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Chris Penny

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2017, 01:26:28 am »

Any particular reason you want to go wireless? Could a wired mic be a better (as well as more reliable and cheaper) option for what you are doing? This would definitely give you more potential funds to do other things such as upgrade your mains

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Caleb Johnson

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2017, 11:21:08 am »

Any particular reason you want to go wireless? Could a wired mic be a better (as well as more reliable and cheaper) option for what you are doing? This would definitely give you more potential funds to do other things such as upgrade your mains

We went wired for a while and it was a mess.
These mics are going to be mainly used by kids. Ages 4-15. Have you ever put 8 kids that age on stage together with each of them having a corded mic??  That gets fun real fast!!!

I'll still have 4 corded mics, but this new stuff just has to be cordless. It will get used some to pass around the audience as well.

Caleb
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Mike Pyle

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 01:25:56 am »

In your budget range I'd suggest the Mipro ACT-7 series. I don't know if you need all handheld mics or a mix of handhelds and packs, but you could get the ACT-74 quad receiver with whatever transmitters you need, plus a single system, and come out pretty close to your budget amount.

The ACT-7 series transmitters have magnesium alloy metal housings, no doubt better with kids handling them than plastic.

http://avlex.com/product_categories/act-7-series-ultra-wideband-wireless/
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Caleb Johnson

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 06:27:35 pm »

So after some more research we are leaning heavily towards the AT system 10 pro all rack mounted and with a power supply. The front facing antennas will save me from needing antenna distribution for now and I've got the cost down to $360 or so per channel.


Any advice?
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 07:10:04 pm »

You will not get 6 channels of mic out of that system it operates in the 2.4 band.

You were on the right track with BLX or the senny cheap option otherwise honestly go wireless and find a solution to you cabling nightmares, it could be entirely possible you just need to spend some time with the kids to teach them some good stage etiquette and buy a 8 channel drop snake and you will be set for much cheaper.

Do not buy  6 2.4GHz band mics
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Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Jerome Malsack

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2017, 12:45:22 pm »

on the 2.4 ghz range you can load up Inssider software and look at the wifi 2.4 gig signal in your venue.   this will show how congested the 2.4 band will be.  Same with DMX lighting that has some 2.4 wireless gear. 

Getting the Wireless Work bench from shure or the Sennhieser program will help you with Frequency coordination.  because each wireless mic has to be on its own frequency and not blocked by other problems.  TV and such, or computers wifi, DMX 2.4. 

With new devices like thermostats and security devices using 2.4 also you will run the risk of 2.4 being way to busy. 
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2017, 08:28:18 am »

 - Do not get a 2.4ghz wireless system.

 - An equipment rack will not really fit well setting on top of the shelf in the picture, at least in the way it looks to me.

 - Front mounted or rear mounted do not really make much difference in needing an antenna distro or not. Yes rear mounted antennas will be around all the cabling and if the rack is metal that is not good. With a total of six wireless mics I would get a distro system.

 - The Audio Technica 2000 is not that bad for what you want to use them for and they would just make it into your budget, minus the rack and antenna distro system.

 - To rack mount the Audio Technica's side by side in a single rack space you will need to the Audio Technica AT8630 joining plates, one plate for every two receivers.


Scott Hofmann

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2017, 09:20:34 am »

The Audio-Technica joining plates are a joke for what you have to pay for them. Google what they look like, put two of your receivers next to each other upside down, make a paper template, and go to any local sheet metal shop and have them fabricated.
You will have the same thing for a couple of dollars each versus $18 to $25 each.
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Scott Hofmann

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: New guy. Help needed on 5 new wireless systems
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 05:08:30 am »

I attached a picture of WiFi during our service this morning 12 mobile hotspots brought in over and above any phones pinging APS. We have 10 hotspots ourselves for internet and technical networks although all of them are pretty low power apart from one or 2 technical hotspots.

This is why 2.4GHz devices are not recomended.

We would not be able to use a single 2.4GHz mic in this range. Even my current hotspots are quite useless.
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Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver
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