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Author Topic: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D  (Read 2287 times)

TomBoisseau

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Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« on: March 28, 2017, 10:49:40 pm »

I just purchased two new Tio1608-D boxes to use with my QL1 and QL5.  So far I have only attempted to use them with the QL1, but I'm having problems, with both of the Tio's.

It seems that the QL will recognize the Tio (it is clearly "active" in the device list), and I can even hear the relays "click" in the Tio when I adjust the headamp on the QL, however the "Status" (input and output) LED's are continually flashing on and off "red", and I can not get any signal to pass.

I called Yamaha a couple times today and, after trying various things, at their suggestion, I did a complete firmware update on both the QL and the Tio's, however it has made no difference whatsoever.  I do NOT consider myself very competent with Dante and the Tio/Rio boxes, therefore I can not help but believe it is likely something I'm doing wrong.

Any suggestions?

Tom

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boburtz

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 11:04:49 pm »


Any suggestions?

Tom
Try mounting the Tio in the 4th or later dante "rack" on the console.  We have been using the Tio rack with the QL5 since the firmware allowed it, about a year ago, and had an issue with head amp control (supposedly fixed in a subsequent firmware update), but resolved the problem via the above mentioned mounting placement. I know the issue you are having is different, but there was a meaningful hardware reason behind moving the tio down the rack in the console, which I did at the advice of Yamaha.
Also, Dante controller will show you audio activity on a per-channel basis. Do you see audio activity coming from the Tio in Dante controller?
aslo, what are your dip switch and quick config settings?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 11:08:03 pm by boburtz »
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TomBoisseau

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 11:23:27 pm »

Try mounting the Tio in the 4th or later dante "rack" on the console.  We have been using the Tio rack with the QL5 since the firmware allowed it, about a year ago, and had an issue with head amp control (supposedly fixed in a subsequent firmware update), but resolved the problem via the above mentioned mounting placement. I know the issue you are having is different, but there was a meaningful hardware reason behind moving the tio down the rack in the console, which I did at the advice of Yamaha.
Also, Dante controller will show you audio activity on a per-channel basis. Do you see audio activity coming from the Tio in Dante controller?
aslo, what are your dip switch and quick config settings?


Thanks so much for your reply.

I tried your suggestion and mounted the Tio in the 5th "rack space", but it made no difference.  I still get the "Status" lights flashing red and no audio will pass.  I also looked into Dante Controller (with which I have very little experience) and I do not see any "indicators" that show "audio activity".  Where might I find that?

Also, all dip switches are UP, and the "Quick Config" is turned OFF.

Thanks,
Tom

« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 11:26:41 pm by TomBoisseau »
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boburtz

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2017, 12:10:32 am »


 I also looked into Dante Controller (with which I have very little experience) and I do not see any "indicators" that show "audio activity".  Where might I find that?

Thanks,
Tom
If the Tio comes up in Dante controller, double click on it and then click on the "transmit" tab. you should see a little speaker icon under the "signal" column that will light up green if there is activity on a given channel... You can test it with a mic or any signal.
So if I understand you correctly, the head amp gain is tracking with the QL as controller, but there is no audio passing. Correct?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 12:15:31 am by boburtz »
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TomBoisseau

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2017, 08:50:13 am »

If the Tio comes up in Dante controller, double click on it and then click on the "transmit" tab. you should see a little speaker icon under the "signal" column that will light up green if there is activity on a given channel... You can test it with a mic or any signal.
So if I understand you correctly, the head amp gain is tracking with the QL as controller, but there is no audio passing. Correct?

That is correct.  The head amp control on the QL1 and in R-Remote WILL work (or at least I hear the relays), but no audio will pass.

Thanks for the suggestion using Dante Controller.  I was able to see the Tio, double clicked on it and saw the speaker icons.  I then tried a tone generator at various levels and into various inputs, but none of them would light up green.

Tom
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boburtz

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2017, 11:52:03 am »

That is correct.  The head amp control on the QL1 and in R-Remote WILL work (or at least I hear the relays), but no audio will pass.

Thanks for the suggestion using Dante Controller.  I was able to see the Tio, double clicked on it and saw the speaker icons.  I then tried a tone generator at various levels and into various inputs, but none of them would light up green.

Tom
Have you tried running the Tio without the QL, controlling only with R-remote? Eliminate the QL from the chain to try to narrow down the possible problem area.
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TomBoisseau

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2017, 12:09:47 pm »

Have you tried running the Tio without the QL, controlling only with R-remote? Eliminate the QL from the chain to try to narrow down the possible problem area.

From R-Remote I can see the Tio, adjust the gains, AND I can see the audio signals on the Tio.  I also noticed that using R-Remote is the only time that the "Status" LED's stop flashing.  When I connect to the QL or use Dante Controller the "Status" LED's are always flashing red.
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boburtz

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2017, 12:15:47 pm »

From R-Remote I can see the Tio, adjust the gains, AND I can see the audio signals on the Tio.  I also noticed that using R-Remote is the only time that the "Status" LED's stop flashing.  When I connect to the QL or use Dante Controller the "Status" LED's are always flashing red.
Troubleshooting this will be more efficient with Yamaha. Obviously there is a communication problem between the Tio and the other connected devices. The most recent update to the QL firmware added a secondary IP address configuration tab to the console, which is dedicated to device control (ie; Tio 1608-D). It's possible that your device control IP settings are not set correctly. Mine is set to "auto" and it works fine. I would get on the phone to Yamaha and keep them on the phone until you get this functioning.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2017, 12:16:19 pm »

Stupid question, I hope, but you are turning on the QL1 FIRST and THEN the Tio?

From the manual, "The indicator flashes in red if the input is muted, if the system clock is being synced, or if there is a system error." -- has the system clock been verified?

-Ray
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Graham Smyth

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 02:05:08 pm »

I just purchased two new Tio1608-D boxes to use with my QL1 and QL5.  So far I have only attempted to use them with the QL1, but I'm having problems, with both of the Tio's.

It seems that the QL will recognize the Tio (it is clearly "active" in the device list), and I can even hear the relays "click" in the Tio when I adjust the headamp on the QL, however the "Status" (input and output) LED's are continually flashing on and off "red", and I can not get any signal to pass.

I called Yamaha a couple times today and, after trying various things, at their suggestion, I did a complete firmware update on both the QL and the Tio's, however it has made no difference whatsoever.  I do NOT consider myself very competent with Dante and the Tio/Rio boxes, therefore I can not help but believe it is likely something I'm doing wrong.

Any suggestions?

Tom

You might want to check the position of dip switch #4 on the TIO.  If your mixer is using Dante redundant mode of operation then I think this switch should be set down.  The default switch setting is UP for the auto-config daisy chain mode of operation.
 
I am using TIO1608 connected to a TF1, but wanted to use redundancy mode rather than the default daisy chain mode, and could not get the mixer and stagebox to sync up. After many hours of fiddling around, discovered that I needed to set the TIO for redundancy but also had to use Dante Controller to change the mixer Dante card from "switched" to "redundant" mode in the device settings in DC, then reboot the Dante card.  Everything synced up OK after that.  I am not familiar with the QL1,  but I suspect it normally is setup for redundant Dante mode, and therefore you should setup the same on TIO.       
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 02:33:40 pm »

You might want to check the position of dip switch #4 on the TIO.  If your mixer is using Dante redundant mode of operation then I think this switch should be set down.  The default switch setting is UP for the auto-config daisy chain mode of operation.
 
That might be our answer!

-Ray
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TomBoisseau

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 10:45:22 pm »

I now have about 12 hours on this issue, but I believe I finally have the problem solved.  To begin with, one of the Tio boxes was defective, in fact, now it won't even power up.  The other Tio box seems fine.

After 6 phone calls to technical support, they finally transferred me to a guy in service who recommended I go back and load the QL1 with v3.02, then v4.02, and then v4.10.  I had trouble with v3.02 not loading the NAME SUB and the Dante file, but I just chose to ignore that.  V4.02 had a problem the Dante file, but on a second attempt all went well.  Finally I loaded in v4.10.  Note, I had already tried reloading v4.10 (with the NAME SUB and the Dante file) a couple times but it never solved the problem with the Tio box.  It was only when I went back a few firmware versions and loaded them all in the order specified above that it worked.

That seems to have solved it.  I'll do some more testing tomorrow just to be sure.

Thank you all for your suggestions.  I'm sure glad I found this out BEFORE I was out on a job!

Tom

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Tijo George Thayil

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2017, 05:44:08 am »

That might be our answer!

-Ray

Did u try changing the cat-5 cable?
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2017, 11:52:39 am »

Did u try changing the cat-5 cable?

Please go to your profile and change your displayed name to your real full name as required by the rules of these forums.

Mac
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TomBoisseau

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2017, 09:46:02 pm »

Did u try changing the cat-5 cable?

I did. Thank you.  See "Reply #11".  That ended up being the answer. I was pleased to discover it wasn't completely my ignorance!

Tom
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Tijo George Thayil

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 03:06:38 pm »

I did as you said.. Thanks

I did. Thank you.  See "Reply #11".  That ended up being the answer. I was pleased to discover it wasn't completely my ignorance!

Tom
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Tijo George Thayil

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 03:27:23 pm »

Ignore the previous reply.. That was for Mr. Mac.. :)

    I had the same issue with Two Rack and QL-1. And that was on a show day.. Luckily I used another cable and My Dante Virtual Sound Card was connected to QL-1 secondary port, It was working.. SO I thought it was because of the Cable. Later then I figured out it was not the Cable but the QL-1 itself. Coz I tried the Same Tio-1608 to another QL-1 and it was working. So I did a Dante hard reset on the misbehaved QL-1 by pressing and holding the selection keys of both Master faders (A&B, while Power on the mixer. And it started to work.

   But on the Next Job I was with a QL-1 and a Rio 1608. Rio was connected to a Shure Mic Rack and a Meyer Galileo, through the secondary port. Primary port was connected to the Console's primary port. On the Console's secondary port, my Dante Virtual Sound card was connected. The show was going well, suddenly The Rio Rack got disconnected, and so the Audio from that as well. Shure Wireless workbench went offline and came back online as well as the Compass software for Galileo. But the Rio Rack did not, until Manually rebooted. Later on I came to know that there was a power switching happened (it switched to the backup power supply)in the hotel's main power supply due to some issue. My console did not turned off or there was no other visible proofs for a power glitch.. (If the Hotel engineering team was not telling this to my client, I'd have got screwed..)

  Anybody can help me with this, that came to a conclusion that it could be because of the power glitch the Dante network got compromised. My question is, did this happened because I ran too many external equipments through the same network? or is it because I used the DHCP protocol? I'd be glad if somebody can help.

   Admin, Please let me know If I have to start a new post with this issue.. And pls advise me how to get notifications on my mail, at least when I get a reply to my posts.. Thank you..

I did as you said.. Thanks

I did. Thank you.  See "Reply #11".  That ended up being the answer. I was pleased to discover it wasn't completely my ignorance!

Tom
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 03:47:07 pm »

But on the Next Job I was with a QL-1 and a Rio 1608. Rio was connected to a Shure Mic Rack and a Meyer Galileo, through the secondary port. Primary port was connected to the Console's primary port. On the Console's secondary port, my Dante Virtual Sound card was connected. The show was going well, suddenly The Rio Rack got disconnected, and so the Audio from that as well. Shure Wireless workbench went offline and came back online as well as the Compass software for Galileo. But the Rio Rack did not, until Manually rebooted. Later on I came to know that there was a power switching happened (it switched to the backup power supply)in the hotel's main power supply due to some issue. My console did not turned off or there was no other visible proofs for a power glitch.. (If the Hotel engineering team was not telling this to my client, I'd have got screwed..)

Tijo, you really need to get a couple of switches. They don't have to be expensive, a $50 switch will work just fine. You are really asking for trouble using a daisy chain for the I/O racks, mics, and the Galileo. If you have a problem with one device you may lose everything farther down the chain. You should also have one at FOH so your DVS can be on the primary port with your line to backstage. With switches you will also be able to use the secondary ports on the console and the stage racks as a redundant network.

Mac
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Tijo George Thayil

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2017, 06:42:03 am »

Thanks Mac.. I am gonna do it.. To be more clear, you are suggesting me to run 2 cat5 cables.. right? One connected to all the other equipments, between the primary ports and another one between the secondary ports, just for Dante.. and to change the Dante settings in the console to redundant.. is there anything I should know? Any dip switches in Rio or Tio racks to be toggled? My DVS is also very important as it handling all the play back.. any suggestions for that?

Tijo, you really need to get a couple of switches. They don't have to be expensive, a $50 switch will work just fine. You are really asking for trouble using a daisy chain for the I/O racks, mics, and the Galileo. If you have a problem with one device you may lose everything farther down the chain. You should also have one at FOH so your DVS can be on the primary port with your line to backstage. With switches you will also be able to use the secondary ports on the console and the stage racks as a redundant network.

Mac
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David Sturzenbecher

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Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2017, 08:00:00 am »

Tojo,
I really suggest you get some training on Dante.

https://www.audinate.com/resources/training-and-tutorials

And here

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/cl/selftraining.jsp

Will be good starts for you. Specifically anything on the Yamaha site related to Dante.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Tijo George Thayil

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2017, 12:59:16 pm »

I am on it..Thank you David.. By the way its Tijo. not Tojo.. :)



Tojo,
I really suggest you get some training on Dante.

https://www.audinate.com/resources/training-and-tutorials

And here

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/cl/selftraining.jsp

Will be good starts for you. Specifically anything on the Yamaha site related to Dante.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2017, 03:21:09 pm »

That was probably his phone/browser's Auto-Wrong feature changing it on him.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2017, 03:37:19 pm »

That was probably his phone/browser's Auto-Wrong feature changing it on him.
Correct, my apologies Tijo
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boburtz

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Re: Yamaha QL1 / QL5 with Tio1608-D
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2017, 06:58:47 pm »

Tijo, you really need to get a couple of switches. They don't have to be expensive, a $50 switch will work just fine.

Mac
At the very least make sure to get the managed version of this switch, the unmanaged version has EEE and dante is NOT reliably compatible or supported with any switch that is running EEE, afaik.
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