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[Lance Hallmark]

Do you think that a pair of JTR Orbit Shifters would work well with a pair of JTR's new Captivator 218 Pros? While only a little smaller than the OS, the new boxes go down to 22hz (+/- 3db). I was thinking of splitting up the sub frequencies, with the Captivators taking the lower frequencies and the O.S. the higher. Would overlapping some frequencies be beneficial or detrimental. I currently have my O.S. high passed at 30. I do mostly DJ sound so there is music being produced with bass that low.
http://jtrspeakers.com/orbit-shifter-pro.html
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-218pro.html

Thanks for your input!

Lance

[Tim McCulloch]

Do you think that a pair of JTR Orbit Shifters would work well with a pair of JTR's new Captivator 218 Pros? While only a little smaller than the OS, the new boxes go down to 22hz (+/- 3db). I was thinking of splitting up the sub frequencies, with the Captivators taking the lower frequencies and the O.S. the higher. Would overlapping some frequencies be beneficial or detrimental. I currently have my O.S. high passed at 30. I do mostly DJ sound so there is music being produced with bass that low.
http://jtrspeakers.com/orbit-shifter-pro.html
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-218pro.html

Thanks for your input!

Lance

Call JTR and talk to Jeff.  He will give you straight up answers that address your specific use.

[Chris Grimshaw]

Call JTR and talk to Jeff.  He will give you straight up answers that address your specific use.

... and then come back and tell us!

Chris

[Ivan Beaver]

I agree with contacting Jeff-he knows more about the products than others.

But I will add that the idea of "splitting up the bass" is generally NOT a good idea.

This is because of multiple problems.

One is because the freq ranges "desired" are very narrow-so the use of filters that are not to sweep cause lots of overlapping.

Using steep filters causes ringing.

Most subs are not flat-and some very far from flat.

So the "desired" acoustical xover is often very different than the "assumed" electrical xovers.

Different delays associated with the filters are not taken into account.

It takes careful measurement and understanding to get it to work properly.

This does not mean that it can't be done, but should be approached with caution.

The "idea" is nice, but the reality is often far from that

[Jeremy Young]

Just due to the nature of the horn loaded versus bass reflex designs, I would expect you'd need a good amount of digital delay offset between the signals sent to each woofer channel, and then the whole phase interaction and alignment thing comes into play for the two boxes at their acoustic crossover.

I don't feel like I miss any frequencies below the OS extension, but my applications are all live music.

+1 for asking Jeff and then sharing with the class!

[Lance Hallmark]

Call JTR and talk to Jeff.  He will give you straight up answers that address your specific use.

I was planning to, of course. I figured I'd hit up the minds here first and see if it was even worth pursuing. I'll post when I get some feedback from Jeff.

[Mark Wilkinson]

Hey Lance, if what you're thinking about is for playback only and latency isn't really a problem, I think you could make it work.
I just built both a sealed and ported 18" (trying to learn something about sub design from ground up) and have been able to get them to play pretty nicely with orbitshifters.
I'm using phase correction and delay via miniDSP.  I think with 64ms delay of FIR, you could pull it off.  Would take some learning of course, with no guarantees !

Add me to the list of very interested to hear what Jeff says...

[Lance Hallmark]

Add me to the list of very interested to hear what Jeff says...

No response from Jeff via email yet, I'll call next week if I don't get one before then.

[Ivan Beaver]

I'm using phase correction and delay via miniDSP.  I think with 64ms delay of FIR, you could pull it off. 

I find it really funny that it was not that long ago that "audio guys" were all up in arms about the delay over systems like Cobranet (3 ish ms).

But NOW, it is "perfectly fine" to have waayyyyy more delay time by using FIR filters.

As if the whole time thing doesn't matter like it used to.

But as long as it is "FIR" then everything is "just fine".

But then again-some people just like to complain----------

Flame suit on

[Mark Wilkinson]

I find it really funny that it was not that long ago that "audio guys" were all up in arms about the delay over systems like Cobranet (3 ish ms).

But NOW, it is "perfectly fine" to have waayyyyy more delay time by using FIR filters.

As if the whole time thing doesn't matter like it used to.

But as long as it is "FIR" then everything is "just fine".

But then again-some people just like to complain----------

Flame suit on

I don't see how anybody can flame that,....... it's all friggin true haha

Also, I don't think all the FIR stuff being thrown around in speaker brochures is real...
I've been playing with FIR long enough to know you can tell by the latencies, or rather lack of them, how much FIR is really being used.
It takes time to correct time........

[Jeff Permanian]

Do you think that a pair of JTR Orbit Shifters would work well with a pair of JTR's new Captivator 218 Pros? While only a little smaller than the OS, the new boxes go down to 22hz (+/- 3db). I was thinking of splitting up the sub frequencies, with the Captivators taking the lower frequencies and the O.S. the higher. Would overlapping some frequencies be beneficial or detrimental. I currently have my O.S. high passed at 30. I do mostly DJ sound so there is music being produced with bass that low.
http://jtrspeakers.com/orbit-shifter-pro.html
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-218pro.html

Thanks for your input!

Lance

A pair of Captivator 218pro will have twice the lowend and similar topend output as an Orbit Shifter plus a Captivator 218pro.  Mixing and matching subwoofers hardly ever gives you optimal results.

[Lance Hallmark]

A pair of Captivator 218pro will have twice the lowend and similar topend output as an Orbit Shifter plus a Captivator 218pro.  Mixing and matching subwoofers hardly ever gives you optimal results.

Thanks for the reply Jeff. I think I will just stay with the Orbit Shifters at this point and pick up the new Captivator 212Pros for smaller gigs. I was trying to kill two birds with one stone but that usually never works out.

[Ivan Beaver]

Mixing and matching subwoofers hardly ever gives you optimal results.

Agreed, but sometimes different types can play well with each other with no ill effects, but people MUST measure and confirm.

Very often, what people are trying to do with different subs is to "get the best of each one" and hoping they will add just fine.

But what they FORGET, is that they are ALSO getting the "worse" or the problems of each one ALONG with the "advantage".

It does not often work out the way they want or like like to think it does.

But every now and then you do get lucky

[Jeff Permanian]

Thanks for the reply Jeff. I think I will just stay with the Orbit Shifters at this point and pick up the new Captivator 212Pros for smaller gigs. I was trying to kill two birds with one stone but that usually never works out.

We've been getting a lot in inquiries about the new Captivator 212. I have a couple hear that people can listen to however I have to hold on to them for the Axpona Audio Expo in Chicago, April 21-23. We're sponsoring all the live music and are debuting the Captivator 212 there.

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