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Author Topic: different JTR subs together?  (Read 1517 times)

Lance Hallmark

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different JTR subs together?
« on: March 23, 2017, 01:53:38 pm »

Do you think that a pair of JTR Orbit Shifters would work well with a pair of JTR's new Captivator 218 Pros? While only a little smaller than the OS, the new boxes go down to 22hz (+/- 3db). I was thinking of splitting up the sub frequencies, with the Captivators taking the lower frequencies and the O.S. the higher. Would overlapping some frequencies be beneficial or detrimental. I currently have my O.S. high passed at 30. I do mostly DJ sound so there is music being produced with bass that low.
http://jtrspeakers.com/orbit-shifter-pro.html
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-218pro.html

Thanks for your input!

Lance
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Lance Hallmark
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 02:30:44 pm »

Do you think that a pair of JTR Orbit Shifters would work well with a pair of JTR's new Captivator 218 Pros? While only a little smaller than the OS, the new boxes go down to 22hz (+/- 3db). I was thinking of splitting up the sub frequencies, with the Captivators taking the lower frequencies and the O.S. the higher. Would overlapping some frequencies be beneficial or detrimental. I currently have my O.S. high passed at 30. I do mostly DJ sound so there is music being produced with bass that low.
http://jtrspeakers.com/orbit-shifter-pro.html
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-218pro.html

Thanks for your input!

Lance

Call JTR and talk to Jeff.  He will give you straight up answers that address your specific use.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 05:39:35 pm »

Call JTR and talk to Jeff.  He will give you straight up answers that address your specific use.

... and then come back and tell us!

Chris
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 06:49:40 pm »

I agree with contacting Jeff-he knows more about the products than others.

But I will add that the idea of "splitting up the bass" is generally NOT a good idea.

This is because of multiple problems.

One is because the freq ranges "desired" are very narrow-so the use of filters that are not to sweep cause lots of overlapping.

Using steep filters causes ringing.

Most subs are not flat-and some very far from flat.

So the "desired" acoustical xover is often very different than the "assumed" electrical xovers.

Different delays associated with the filters are not taken into account.

It takes careful measurement and understanding to get it to work properly.

This does not mean that it can't be done, but should be approached with caution.

The "idea" is nice, but the reality is often far from that
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Jeremy Young

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 09:20:13 pm »

Just due to the nature of the horn loaded versus bass reflex designs, I would expect you'd need a good amount of digital delay offset between the signals sent to each woofer channel, and then the whole phase interaction and alignment thing comes into play for the two boxes at their acoustic crossover.

I don't feel like I miss any frequencies below the OS extension, but my applications are all live music.

+1 for asking Jeff and then sharing with the class!
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2017, 12:34:32 pm »

Call JTR and talk to Jeff.  He will give you straight up answers that address your specific use.

I was planning to, of course. I figured I'd hit up the minds here first and see if it was even worth pursuing. I'll post when I get some feedback from Jeff.
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Lance Hallmark
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2017, 02:56:34 pm »

Hey Lance, if what you're thinking about is for playback only and latency isn't really a problem, I think you could make it work.
I just built both a sealed and ported 18" (trying to learn something about sub design from ground up) and have been able to get them to play pretty nicely with orbitshifters.
I'm using phase correction and delay via miniDSP.  I think with 64ms delay of FIR, you could pull it off.  Would take some learning of course, with no guarantees !

Add me to the list of very interested to hear what Jeff says...
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 10:24:25 am »

Add me to the list of very interested to hear what Jeff says...

No response from Jeff via email yet, I'll call next week if I don't get one before then.
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Lance Hallmark
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2017, 12:41:07 pm »


I'm using phase correction and delay via miniDSP.  I think with 64ms delay of FIR, you could pull it off. 
I find it really funny that it was not that long ago that "audio guys" were all up in arms about the delay over systems like Cobranet (3 ish ms).

But NOW, it is "perfectly fine" to have waayyyyy more delay time by using FIR filters.

As if the whole time thing doesn't matter like it used to.

But as long as it is "FIR" then everything is "just fine".

But then again-some people just like to complain----------

Flame suit on
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: different JTR subs together?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 02:51:10 pm »

I find it really funny that it was not that long ago that "audio guys" were all up in arms about the delay over systems like Cobranet (3 ish ms).

But NOW, it is "perfectly fine" to have waayyyyy more delay time by using FIR filters.

As if the whole time thing doesn't matter like it used to.

But as long as it is "FIR" then everything is "just fine".

But then again-some people just like to complain----------

Flame suit on

I don't see how anybody can flame that,....... it's all friggin true haha

Also, I don't think all the FIR stuff being thrown around in speaker brochures is real...
I've been playing with FIR long enough to know you can tell by the latencies, or rather lack of them, how much FIR is really being used.
It takes time to correct time........
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