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[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Wha? A compressor cannot make up for a bad arrangement.

In like manner, poorly or needlessly applied compression can foul up a good arrangement...

DR, DA

[Geoff Doane]

.... Bear in mind that things in the signal chain will also change, and the channel EQ will be more effective as that fader goes up.

I think maybe you need to 'splain that one.  Console channel EQ is usually (always?) before the fader, and should be pretty linear anyway.  It may be true that EQ changes will be more apparent the louder that particular source is (ie, if the fader is down all the way, you won't hear any change), but more than just the channel fader will affect that.

GTD

[Jay Marr]

Also, how are you deriving "unity" on the sends? IIRC the sends on the iPad and X Edit and probably on the consoles themselves are not numbered, just some horizontal lines like are next to the physical faders on non-rack consoles.

Looking now at the X Edit screen for the L-R Matrix sends, there are the unlabelled horizontal lines indicating level on each send as well as some green lines changing to yellow lines about halfway up the fader travel.

If you are assuming that the color transition is "unity" you are losing about 15 or so db, I think.

Finding actual unity rather than visual "unity" is considerably more complex and easily missed IMHO. No labels on things that need labeling is one thing Behringer is doing wrong and has always done wrong. IMO.

They do many things right, so they could easily do this right, too.

In your latest post, you ask about the limits of the consoles, and say "XXX isn't redline - I'm ok"

What do you mean by "redline"? One red led lighting up? All red leds lighting up?

I am using the iPad app, which has a label for -0- for all screens....with the possible exception of the Matrix Sends (I don't have my iPad so I can't check to see if there are labels, or just horizontal lines....but either way, I'm putting it in the same spot where zero is labeled on other pages).

By redline I mean in the yellow, tickling orange.

[Steve Garris]

I think maybe you need to 'splain that one.  Console channel EQ is usually (always?) before the fader, and should be pretty linear anyway.  It may be true that EQ changes will be more apparent the louder that particular source is (ie, if the fader is down all the way, you won't hear any change), but more than just the channel fader will affect that.

GTD

Sorry and yes, that's what I meant.

[Dan Mortensen]

I am using the iPad app, which has a label for -0- for all screens....with the possible exception of the Matrix Sends (I don't have my iPad so I can't check to see if there are labels, or just horizontal lines....but either way, I'm putting it in the same spot where zero is labeled on other pages).

By redline I mean in the yellow, tickling orange.

Redline in automotive terms means the limit, I believe. Tickling orange is quite a bit down from distortion, which is the limit. Looking at X32 Edit, the first orange bar is -18 from full scale, so you still have 18db above that till clipping.

Not that I'm advocating always running at the limit, but when you need that 18db it's there.

Try swapping inputs to see why your iPod rumbles the building at the same visual level as your instruments which are not.

[Tim McCulloch]

One reason I'm asking is that my iPod channel (which has the input gain barely hitting yellow) is crazy loud compared to my vocal channel.  I can barely get the fader to -10 before the walls are shaking.  So it has me thinking....am I doing something wrong with my instrument channels?
Only difference though is that the iPod channel goes direct to the Main Output....no DCA group.

Is this just the nature of the beast, and program music is always going to be louder/clearer because it's produced for max output....or is there something else I could be doing?

I've never run a fader (channel, DCA group, Matrix Output) above the -0- mark because I believe it would add distortion?  Am I wrong on that?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

The music on your iThingy has been multiply compressed, limited and mixed so everything is louder than ever thing else.  If it is the only input that exhibits the phenomenon it is the program material, not the input connection and very unlikely to be routing.

[Scott Olewiler]

The music on your iThingy has been multiply compressed, limited and mixed so everything is louder than ever thing else.  If it is the only input that exhibits the phenomenon it is the program material, not the input connection and very unlikely to be routing.

A quick internal rerouting of your ipod input to your vocal channel would verfiy that.

[Tim McCulloch]

A quick internal rerouting of your ipod input to your vocal channel would verfiy that.

Or not, because those inputs have a different input gain.

[Jay Marr]

A quick internal rerouting of your ipod input to your vocal channel would verfiy that.

I'm going to route the iPod to my vocal DCA group and see if the volume (of the ipod) is impacted (with the DCA fader at zero).

[Jay Marr]

I think you are overthinking this.


Our scenes and systems are setup the method Tim describes.  Amps or powered speakers all the way up.  This hits job 1, protect the system.  The limiters are set so that nothing can harm the system. 


Starting at the other end of the chain you want to set the input level so you aren't too low and are trying to suck non-existent signal out of the noise farther up in the chain.  If you don't set your inputs to maximize S/N ratio it is only going to get worse.  Spend the most time on the input.


Adding gain at the end is IMHO the worst place, on the X32 you have make up gain on the compressor, that's always my ace up the sleeve if I wish I had just a hair more input but can't fuck up the monitor mix.


Now you have your channel strip gain.   I find with master at 0 and no gain in the EQ section (would rather cut a little than add something, that's a whole different subject) that you are mixing in the best range on the faders.  The encoders have a taper, you want to be mixing in the highest resolution portion of the taper if at all possible.  This is the section where the most amount of encoder movement causes the least change in output.  It allows for finer control.


Compressors are your friend.  They allow you to place elements within the mix at their appropriate place.  If you control the dynamics of a channel it sits better in the mix than just bringing down the level. 


Lastly if you need some tweaking space use your matrix sends, you can also put your master limiter here. 


Just remember, you can't make up signal that was never present in a later gain stage without bringing the noise floor up along with it.  Diito, once you drive a section to hard you can't take away the distortion added at that stage, only reduce it's level proportionally with the overall signal.


Use your ears.  With the X32 you should try and make some raw multitracks to practice with.

I'm following almost all of what you stated above.
 - Amps are all the way up.
 - I do focus on getting the input gain pretty hot (so I'm not trying to add gain further down the chain).
 - I have used the Compressor on my vocal channel to get a tad more volume if/when needed.  I'll take a second look at this to see where I have it currently set.

With the X32 you should try and make some raw multitracks to practice with.

This is an outstanding idea! 
I embarrassed I didn't think of it.  I multitrack very often, so I have plenty of material.
This will solve my biggest issue, which is - I don't have the ability to tweak and try some of these suggestions, during a gig.
I'm singing, playing guitar, mixing, and trying to keep people from putting beer on my equipment...so all of my tweaks are done during the 10 minutes we have for sound check.  Doing this with recorded tracks will let me experiment with much less risk.

Thanks all for your suggestions and insight.

[ProSoundWeb Community]