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Author Topic: Setting gain structure with faders at unity  (Read 14766 times)

Jon Ross

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2017, 12:33:24 PM »

There are some noisy spots on the LS9 preamps, and not just at high gain.  The preamp has several different pad ranges (you can hear the relays click as you increase the gain), followed by the digitally controlled analog preamp, and then the A/D converter.  One of those particularly noisy settings is -13 dB (Yamaha's sensitivity).  If you increase the gain by only 1 dB (-14 dB sensitivity), the pad is switched out and the noise floor drops considerably.  I don't know about the M7's preamps, but the highly touted AD8HR preamp works exactly the same way.  It's not so much that there are "sweet" spots on the gain range, as there are "sour" spots to be avoided. I forget exactly where the other ones occur, but they would be easy enough to find.

I did some tests a few years ago comparing the stock LS9 converters to a combination of True Systems Precision 8 preamp and Apogee Rosetta converter, and the console's preamps/converters were actually about 1 dB quieter.... at the particular gain that I happened to use.  I also couldn't detect any sonic differences using program material through them (once I had carefully matched the gain), although I have to admit to some confirmation bias (I didn't expect to hear a difference!).  That test has convinced me to ignore the slagging that the Yamaha preamps seem to get from many internet lusers, and get on with the business of choosing the right mic for the job, and doing the best mix I can with the band/act I have been given.

GTD

I don't know for sure about the ls9 or m7 but do know this is especially true with the pm5d. I recently mixed monitors for a well known British musician doing a solo acoustic tour. His only complaint was the noise coming from desk. The FOH tech and I spent hours trying different outputs and gain settings without coming up with any solution before sound check. It was a good way to kill time while waiting for the lampies to program lights though. Monitors were M4s powered with D12s so no problem there.
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2017, 01:10:25 PM »

My only complaint with Yamaha pres is when you hit it a little to hard it sounds like someone cutting wood...

Other than that the difference between tonality in  preamps is completely subjective, chances are the rest of the console and system has more effect on tone.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2017, 05:26:26 PM »

The only time I revisit the gain knobs is when I get sandbagged during sound check.

Yes - this ..... this!!!
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2017, 05:50:06 PM »

My only complaint with Yamaha pres is when you hit it a little to hard it sounds like someone cutting wood...

Then don't do that. 👏

Quote
Other than that the difference between tonality in  preamps is completely subjective, chances are the rest of the console and system has more effect on tone.

Absolutely this ^^^^
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jesseweiss

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 10:36:19 AM »

I'm reading the X32 gain structure thread and someone mentioned always running their amps and powered speakers almost at full. it brought 2 questions to mind. 

For the LS9 system I run at the school where I work, I don't believe the amps are set very high.  I haven't looked in a while, but I think they are maybe halfway to 2/3 up.  Should they be set higher? I'm still working on getting better sound quality out of the system.

On a somewhat related note, I never run the powered speakers for my band's PA much above the unity mark on the speaker unless I literally need more volume.  Should I have the speakers set higher, and then set the main faders based on needed volume for the room?
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 10:54:32 AM »

I'm reading the X32 gain structure thread and someone mentioned always running their amps and powered speakers almost at full. it brought 2 questions to mind. 

For the LS9 system I run at the school where I work, I don't believe the amps are set very high.  I haven't looked in a while, but I think they are maybe halfway to 2/3 up.  Should they be set higher? I'm still working on getting better sound quality out of the system.

On a somewhat related note, I never run the powered speakers for my band's PA much above the unity mark on the speaker unless I literally need more volume.  Should I have the speakers set higher, and then set the main faders based on needed volume for the room?

IMHO It all depends on how loud you need to be.
If you have the amps or powered speakers up full - then you might find the faders have to be set very low on the channels and master to get to the desired volume. Likewise, if you have the amps or powered speakers turned down too low, you might run out of headroom on the channels or master fader to get to where you need to be.
It is all about balance and gain structure. Once my gains are right,  I get my faders set to just under 0 and I adjust for the room with the powered speaker controls. This means regardless of the room size or desired loudness, my faders stay around the same position every show. My volume adjustment ( for the room) is made with the speakers (amps).
My master fader controls overall volume adjustment  through the night.
If I am at around 0 on the board but I run out of 'volume' at the speakers, then I simply do not have enough rig for the gig. I keep things simple.
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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 10:54:32 AM »


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