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Author Topic: Setting gain structure with faders at unity  (Read 14982 times)

Ken Braziel

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 11:32:28 AM »

The problem with the "faders at unity for setting gain" approach is that if you teach it to someone who doesn't understand the rest of the signal-flow, they might think "I want to keep my faders around unity so I'll adjust the gain as I go." We all (I assume) know this has bad ramifications for monitors and pre-fader effects, but for someone just starting out at mixing this can be confusing. Believe me, I've walked into a situation to settle a mix before stepping on stage to play bass with my artist, set the monitors up and got a decent mix, then when on stage the monitors went stupid because the "engineer" kept fiddling with the gain knobs instead of using the damn faders.

I have always done the opposite: set gain with fader at the bottom, then raised it up to the level that sounded appropriate for the situation. My faders wind up all over the place, usually with the vocals at Unity and everything else mixed to keep VOX on top.

I mix musicals twice a year using the same approach, so all the actors voices start at unity and the orchestra hovers around -10 to -30 depending on where I want each instrument in the mix. I have Groups set up for Orchestra, Lead actors, male ensemble and female ensemble (and one more for kids if appropriate). Mic-check with actors is just for making sure placement is correct and adjusting gain if there is an issue with their voice that day.

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Jonathan Betts

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 12:03:55 PM »

The only time I revisit the gain knobs is when I get sandbagged during sound check.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2017, 12:14:29 PM »

The only time I revisit the gain knobs is when I get sandbagged during sound check.

+1000
Depending on the group, I already "have their number"
I can usually tell by the rig how much I'll end up dropping it at showtime.
I am not often wrong.....
Chris
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 12:24:29 PM »

The only time I revisit the gain knobs is when I get sandbagged during sound check.

So true.

I often have to adjust the gains during the first song, even with a "good" sound check.

I keep a close eye on the meters afterwards.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 12:31:39 PM »

The only problem I have is with the use of the word 'structure'!

I will PFL to set gains then generally put the faders where they need to be.  This is useful for festivals without soundchecks as you can visually set the faders to where you think everything should be so you start with a fairly good mix.


Steve.
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jesseweiss

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2017, 12:34:15 PM »

0 dBVu is around 16-20 dB below the full output capability of the analog mixer. The issue arises when the console operator is not aware of this difference.  Also a few digital consoles have the old style Vu meter markings instead of DBFS so it can be more confusing as you go between different consoles.

The LS9 meters go from 0 down to -60, so any idea which type that is?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2017, 12:41:56 PM »

The LS9 meters go from 0 down to -60, so any idea which type that is?
0 would be full output/clipping.

An ideal place to run a signal would be around -20dB or so.

There are little peaks that are so fast the meters can't respond to them.

Often they are 20dB or greater above the average level (which is what the meters show).
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jesseweiss

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2017, 12:55:29 PM »

0 would be full output/clipping.

An ideal place to run a signal would be around -20dB or so.

There are little peaks that are so fast the meters can't respond to them.

Often they are 20dB or greater above the average level (which is what the meters show).

Thanks!  I was definitely running too hot, which would explain why the sound quality wasn't great.  I was trying for low signal to noise, but I guess I got it all wrong :).
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2017, 02:03:34 PM »

The LS9 meters go from 0 down to -60, so any idea which type that is?

DBFS on all current Yamaha professional mixers.
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jesseweiss

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Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2017, 02:09:45 PM »

DBFS on all current Yamaha professional mixers.

Thanks!
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Setting gain structure with faders at unity
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2017, 02:09:45 PM »


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