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Author Topic: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!  (Read 1049 times)

Chris Stocksmith

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Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« on: March 20, 2017, 01:55:43 am »

Hello Gang!
I have a question and I'm hoping you guys can help me.
I'm a 40-something drummer, and I've just moved back to town and am re-vamping our practice space. I built a bunch of bass traps and on Craigslist hunted down all the gear we need. New (to us) mics, power amps, monitors and mixer.
The Mixer, an Allen and Heath GL2200 is amazing. We're using the inserts to send pre-fade signals to two daisy-chained firepods so we can record the whole band live, make demos, listen, repeat. We play all-original material and we don't practice often, so a good demo of last weeks run-through of the new songs are good to listen during the week so we're prepared for the following week. Too much info, I know, but that was our goal, and as of last night, everything worked!

Except for one thing I don't know how to do. I can't seem to find and easy answer online so I've come to you guys.

I want to use a Lexicon MX200 to add reverb to the live sound in the room. Currently we have the GL2200 set up to Monitor mode, but correct me if I'm wrong.

1. If I want to make reverb from one channel the MX200 available across all 16 channels of my Mixer, what mode should I use? Gathering what I can from the manual, I believe I CANNOT insert the Lexicon to use on more than one channel of the Mixer while in Monitor Mode. Is that the case?
2. If not Monitor Mode, what mode should I use? Dual (FOH and monitor) or Front-of-House?
3. How, on the GL2200 do I connect the Reverb unit?

Sorry for the newbiness. Help me Obiwans, you're my only hope.
If there's a good source with a step-by-step, please share.
Thanks a ton,
Chris
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 03:52:27 am »

Hello Gang!
I have a question and I'm hoping you guys can help me.
I'm a 40-something drummer, and I've just moved back to town and am re-vamping our practice space. I built a bunch of bass traps and on Craigslist hunted down all the gear we need. New (to us) mics, power amps, monitors and mixer.
The Mixer, an Allen and Heath GL2200 is amazing. We're using the inserts to send pre-fade signals to two daisy-chained firepods so we can record the whole band live, make demos, listen, repeat. We play all-original material and we don't practice often, so a good demo of last weeks run-through of the new songs are good to listen during the week so we're prepared for the following week. Too much info, I know, but that was our goal, and as of last night, everything worked!

Except for one thing I don't know how to do. I can't seem to find and easy answer online so I've come to you guys.

I want to use a Lexicon MX200 to add reverb to the live sound in the room. Currently we have the GL2200 set up to Monitor mode, but correct me if I'm wrong.

1. If I want to make reverb from one channel the MX200 available across all 16 channels of my Mixer, what mode should I use? Gathering what I can from the manual, I believe I CANNOT insert the Lexicon to use on more than one channel of the Mixer while in Monitor Mode. Is that the case?
2. If not Monitor Mode, what mode should I use? Dual (FOH and monitor) or Front-of-House?
3. How, on the GL2200 do I connect the Reverb unit?

Sorry for the newbiness. Help me Obiwans, you're my only hope.
If there's a good source with a step-by-step, please share.
Thanks a ton,
Chris


Hi and welcome.  Thanks for the chuckle, referring to a 15 or 20 year old analog board as amazing.  Did you look at any of the digital kit when making this decision?


Are you using the Firepod 8's ? That would make me thing you only need 16 channels so with the cost of the Firepod's you are more than halfway to a number of rack mount digital mixers that would give you multi-track recording.  Dynamics and parametric EQ on every channel plus effects.


Are you just splitting the channels to the recording interfaces?


What are you trying to accomplish with the reverb?  When you say "monitor mode" on the 2200 are you talking about the mod that makes all of the aux buses pre-fader?


If you want to send signal from multiple channels to the reverb unit you need to connect it to an aux send then return the output of the effects box to an input on the board.


If you want to get the wet mix back into the recording then you need to explain your recording setup better but I would think you would be far better off adding the verb in during the mastering process as the amount of verb you want in the practice space would not correspond to what you need on the recorded product.  Plus during mastering you will have access to far more types of reverb and compression.


Speaking of compression I can't imaging getting along without at least a couple of compressors for the groups and some additional compressors for channel inserts.


My opinion is you should sell the board, and the interfaces, take the $500 or so bucks from the sale and pick up a digital  mixer.  In a practice room using a tablet as a mixing surface is not as burdensome as live.



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Steve M Smith

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 04:05:55 am »

Take a post fader auxiliary output and connect to the input of the effects unit.  Connect the output to a spare channel (or channels if you want to use a stereo output.

Turn up the auxiliary send for all channels you want reverb on and also turn up the auxiliary master.  Bring up the desired amount of effect using the effects channel fader.


Steve.
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Mac Kerr

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Posting Rules
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 11:20:31 am »

Hello Gang!
I have a question and I'm hoping you guys can help me.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Chris Stocksmith

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 01:12:04 pm »

Doap! My bad, too anxious for some free wisdom. Keep keepin' on!

as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in...
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Chris Stocksmith

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 09:32:25 pm »

a 15 or 20 year old analog board as amazing.  Did you look at any of the digital kit when making this decision?
Yes, Amazing! Well, I love it, but I know nothing so grain of salt. From my view the GL220 is a rock solid performer in perfect condition (seller had it overhauled). As far as the space and our decision to go analog, we took the fork in the road early to augment what we had (in hindsight, most has been replaced). From there, it kind of grew like a bush taking over the yard. More or less in this order:
Problem: Singers can't hear themselves.
Answer (probably incorrect): $60 for 4 near-field monitors (Galaxy Hotspots)
Prob: Feedback sucks, room doesn't stop ringing.
A: Bass traps, DIY, $260 (Seven 27x30x6" panels, twelve 19" x 36" corner triangles).
Prob: mixer we're using doesn't play nice with the firepod we have.
A: GL2200
Prob: Power
A: 2 Crown MacroTechs
Mics: Behringer SM58 knockoffs and some decent Shure drum mics, and a pretty good condensor mics.
A: Beta 58s, E906
Prob: new daisy-chained Firepod won't play nice with GarageBand
A: Logic
…and so on… Now it’s a tree wanting to bud.
Quote
Are you using the Firepod 8's ? That would make me thing you only need 16 channels so with the cost of the Firepod's you are more than halfway to a number of rack mount digital mixers that would give you multi-track recording.  Dynamics and parametric EQ on every channel plus effects.

I should have reached out to you guys sooner. As it stands we're an analog kinda band. All we want to do is have rock-solid amplification of what we amplify through the P.A. now. Vox, accoustic guitar, etc. Then, these and all the other mics/instruments (electric guitar, bass d.i., drum mics) run through the board and out to the Firepods. Works great by what I can ascertain at this point.
Quote
Are you just splitting the channels to the recording interfaces?

Yes. With the GL2200 you should be able to do an internal adjustment to send the 'direct send' on the back of the channel out pre-fade (factory settings are post fade). I have a guy to do this for $75 (yes, he knows what he’s getting into, fixed my Crowns), but as we played with the mixer, we discovered that our TSR snake would send each channel to the firepod pre-fade/post gain adjustment. So that's how it worked Saturday night. So we're holding off on the modification. Here’s a question, because it’s post-gain, will this clash or overlap the gain adjustments on the FP?
Quote
What are you trying to accomplish with the reverb?  When you say "monitor mode" on the 2200 are you talking about the mod that makes all of the aux buses pre-fader?

The 2200 has three modes, Monitor/FOH/Dual. Monitor mode switches the group faders to Aux faders and vice versa.
If you want to send signal from multiple channels to the reverb unit you need to connect it to an aux send then return the output of the effects box to an input on the board. With my limited time on the GL2200, I gather I can’t do this in ‘Monitor Mode’. Is that true? If possible, I’d like to stay in Monitor Mode but I’m not sure how.
Quote
If you want to get the wet mix back into the recording then you need to explain your recording setup better but I would think you would be far better off adding the verb in during the mastering process as the amount of verb you want in the practice space would not correspond to what you need on the recorded product.  Plus during mastering you will have access to far more types of reverb and compression.

Yes. Thanks. I think I get how to route the Verb through the mixer. Steve’s answer is so simple, I feel foolish for asking in the first place. The Rack Reverb I want to route through the mixer is exclusively for the room. Our singers are used to a little sweetening from our previous on-board reverb of previous/lesser mixers.
Quote

Speaking of compression I can't imaging getting along without at least a couple of compressors for the groups and some additional compressors for channel inserts.
Nice! This is the stuff I need to hear. Again, I wish I’d come here sooner. Kudos. So you’d use compression outside of Logic? I do like the idea of some good EQs in a digital mixer…
Quote

My opinion is you should sell the board, and the interfaces, take the $500 or so bucks from the sale and pick up a digital  mixer.  In a practice room using a tablet as a mixing surface is not as burdensome as live.
Okay, is there a mixer out there that’ll be on par with the Allen and Heath? Am I an idiot for not embracing the new technology? If you were me (want nice demos), what units/makers would you look at.

Thanks for dissecting my quandary Scott.
Thanks for the concise answer Steve.
I look forward to any more guidance you can share.
Cheers!
Chris
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dick rees

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2017, 10:11:43 pm »

Have the pre-fader mod done, keep the board and enjoy.  They really aren't bad.  The GL 2200-24 was my first "larger" console and I still have it.  Then again, I can't bring myself to throw away boots when they wear out...
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 11:03:39 pm »

Yes, Amazing! Well, I love it, but I know nothing so grain of salt. From my view the GL220 is a rock solid performer in perfect condition (seller had it overhauled). As far as the space and our decision to go analog, we took the fork in the road early to augment what we had (in hindsight, most has been replaced). From there, it kind of grew like a bush taking over the yard. More or less in this order:
Problem: Singers can't hear themselves.
Answer (probably incorrect): $60 for 4 near-field monitors (Galaxy Hotspots)
Prob: Feedback sucks, room doesn't stop ringing.
A: Bass traps, DIY, $260 (Seven 27x30x6" panels, twelve 19" x 36" corner triangles).
Prob: mixer we're using doesn't play nice with the firepod we have.
A: GL2200
Prob: Power
A: 2 Crown MacroTechs
Mics: Behringer SM58 knockoffs and some decent Shure drum mics, and a pretty good condensor mics.
A: Beta 58s, E906
Prob: new daisy-chained Firepod won't play nice with GarageBand
A: Logic
…and so on… Now it’s a tree wanting to bud.
I should have reached out to you guys sooner. As it stands we're an analog kinda band. All we want to do is have rock-solid amplification of what we amplify through the P.A. now. Vox, accoustic guitar, etc. Then, these and all the other mics/instruments (electric guitar, bass d.i., drum mics) run through the board and out to the Firepods. Works great by what I can ascertain at this point. 
Yes. With the GL2200 you should be able to do an internal adjustment to send the 'direct send' on the back of the channel out pre-fade (factory settings are post fade). I have a guy to do this for $75 (yes, he knows what he’s getting into, fixed my Crowns), but as we played with the mixer, we discovered that our TSR snake would send each channel to the firepod pre-fade/post gain adjustment. So that's how it worked Saturday night. So we're holding off on the modification. Here’s a question, because it’s post-gain, will this clash or overlap the gain adjustments on the FP?
The 2200 has three modes, Monitor/FOH/Dual. Monitor mode switches the group faders to Aux faders and vice versa.
If you want to send signal from multiple channels to the reverb unit you need to connect it to an aux send then return the output of the effects box to an input on the board. With my limited time on the GL2200, I gather I can’t do this in ‘Monitor Mode’. Is that true? If possible, I’d like to stay in Monitor Mode but I’m not sure how.
Yes. Thanks. I think I get how to route the Verb through the mixer. Steve’s answer is so simple, I feel foolish for asking in the first place. The Rack Reverb I want to route through the mixer is exclusively for the room. Our singers are used to a little sweetening from our previous on-board reverb of previous/lesser mixers.Nice! This is the stuff I need to hear. Again, I wish I’d come here sooner. Kudos. So you’d use compression outside of Logic? I do like the idea of some good EQs in a digital mixer…Okay, is there a mixer out there that’ll be on par with the Allen and Heath? Am I an idiot for not embracing the new technology? If you were me (want nice demos), what units/makers would you look at.

Thanks for dissecting my quandary Scott.
Thanks for the concise answer Steve.
I look forward to any more guidance you can share.
Cheers!
Chris


I have to admit I still am clueless.  Are you using the 2200 only in the practice space?  If you have the 16 channels of digital input are you just using the A&H to mix down for the practice PA?  You didn't answer any of my questions about those topics.



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Chris Stocksmith

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2017, 11:21:45 pm »


I have to admit I still am clueless.  Are you using the 2200 only in the practice space?  If you have the 16 channels of digital input are you just using the A&H to mix down for the practice PA?  You didn't answer any of my questions about those topics.
Yes, the mixer is basically for the live room, practice. The Firepods are so we can record 16 tracks and play with them in Logic. I've always recorded my bands practices so I could do my homework and prepare for the following week. Recording the new songs we're working on once a week will help us hear and develop it for the following week, plus give us practical recording experience. Let us hone our skills as we go. 
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Luke Geis

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Re: Allen and Heath GL2200 Effects Help!
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2017, 11:51:40 pm »

He is referring to switches on the desk that alter what the master faders do. The mixer has a couple of external modes ( via switches ) that converts it into a monitor style desk, or a conventional FOH desk. There are internal jumpers ( inside the mixer ) and a modification that can be done to allow for the inserts to be used for recording.

1. Do the modification needed to set for pre EQ / fader mode on all channels.

2. Take the mixer out of monitor mode. You are not running a monitor desk in your case. You need it to be set up for conventional use.

3. Run the mixer like a normal FOH mixer. Set the auxes for monitors as needed and use a sub group out if you run out of auxes for FX.

I own a GL2400 and it has separate group outs that are distinct from the auxes. The 2200 looks to have both group and aux outs, but I am not sure what they mean by the nomenclature on the back panel. I would guess that the sub groups have separate outs just as the auxes would, but the wording seems backwards. The sub group outs should be the XLR connectors, while the Auxes all the TRS outs. In either case you should be able to use a sub group out as an alternative FX send. To do that you take the channels and send them to thew sub group only and not to L/R. The FX return would come in on another channel that is not set to go into L/R only. This would give you a way to make 2 separate FX mixes.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:04:10 am by Luke Geis »
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