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Author Topic: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help  (Read 677 times)

bren collins

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Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« on: February 27, 2017, 11:58:29 am »

Ok so I'm currently using 4 Jbl stx828 subs on Ashly 4000 amps and I'm wanting a upgrade but can't decide what to go with I'm thinking of 2 rcf 8006-as subs would 2 of these be close to the output of 4 of the Jbl's? I know the rcf's are gonna go lower -3 at 30hz compared to Jbl -10 at 32hz
By specs 2 rcf's should be around the same output as 4 Jbl's and go deeper/ sound better doing it. I'm also considering any suggestions you guys have I've looked at the Danley th118's, how would these stack up I could only afford 1 a side right now and I've looked at the db technologies dva s30. I'm really looking for a sub for around 4000 a box and can only afford 2 but wanting similar output as 4 Jbl stx828's.
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2017, 02:42:26 pm »

Ok so I'm currently using 4 Jbl stx828 subs on Ashly 4000 amps and I'm wanting a upgrade but can't decide what to go with I'm thinking of 2 rcf 8006-as subs would 2 of these be close to the output of 4 of the Jbl's? I know the rcf's are gonna go lower -3 at 30hz compared to Jbl -10 at 32hz
By specs 2 rcf's should be around the same output as 4 Jbl's and go deeper/ sound better doing it. I'm also considering any suggestions you guys have I've looked at the Danley th118's, how would these stack up I could only afford 1 a side right now and I've looked at the db technologies dva s30. I'm really looking for a sub for around 4000 a box and can only afford 2 but wanting similar output as 4 Jbl stx828's.
For a real upgrade from what you have, the Danley or JTR Orbit Shifters should go louder and sound better. I have a pair of the Orbit Shifters. They are well made, sound great, and are incredibly loud. I would say they are probably the best bang for your buck for high end subs. You could probably get 3 powered or 4 passive with your budget.
If you go with Danleys I would say one a side would be pretty close to what you have now output wise but sound better.
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bren collins

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2017, 03:52:08 pm »

So no go on the rcf 8006's whatever I decide on I will be getting one pair for now and later on goto 2 pairs
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2017, 05:11:36 pm »

The RCF 8006 is considered by many to be one of the best sounding active dual 18 boxes out there.  A pair probably will equal the four cabs you have.

I have not heard them directly compared to my db Tech S30N's (I have eight and like them a lot).  The db's (with similar specs) have always gotten good comments from my clients and are easy to use in cardioid or other arrays requiring delays to avoid a "power alley".

The horn loaded boxes are a little different animal and difinitely benefit from being coupled to increase the mouth area.  They have the acoustical advantage from horn loading.  If you only buy two use them as a mono center pair.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2017, 05:34:15 pm »

So no go on the rcf 8006's whatever I decide on I will be getting one pair for now and later on goto 2 pairs

It would be easier to understand you if you were to make complete sentences with punctuation.

So, you proposed a pair of RCF 8006 subs, then heard how good they are from someone who has used them and you then conclude they are a no go? Explain please?

And, yes, I am in curmudgeon mode today.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Brandon Scopel

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 06:44:34 pm »

You say that are you are powering 4 STX828s with Ashly 4000. Is that One 828s per channel? 1 KLR 4000 per 828s?

Another question is what are these being used for?
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bren collins

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 07:11:32 pm »

Sorry about the grammar, I have one klr4000 per sub bridged. I acctually own 8 Jbl stx828's and 8 amps, but at the time can only sell replace 4. Later on I plan to replace the other 4. I looked at the s30 and was very interested, but I heard they lack in the low end while the rcf lacks in output compared side by side. I'm really interested in the Danleys but one of my big reasons for selling besides output is going all powered. Whatever subs I go with I'll be buying matching tops, as now I'm running the stx828's with srx835's 2 a side. Im using the system for live sound mainly rock bands to Christian artists, jazz, and sometimes DJ/ hip hop.
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 10:20:58 pm »

I'm really interested in the Danleys but one of my big reasons for selling besides output is going all powered.

For outdoor gigs with potential for a downpour, I prefer passive subs and not have to worry about powered speakers.

Having said that, Danley TH118 and JTR Orbit Shifter both come in passive and powered versions.

John R.

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Don T. Williams

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 11:39:05 pm »

Bren, I'm just wondering why you didn't consider the JBL SRX828SP?  Do you really need -3dB 30Hz performance?  It is a good match for the SRX835P tops.  That being said, you can mix active and passive, but the SRX800 series is designed to work together and with the version 5 "tunings" of their touring systems if I understand correctly.

Also, what are "matching" tops exactly?  I'm thinking of db Tech and RCF.  Both companies have a lot of good full range offerings, but what does "matching" mean to you?  What are you trying to achieve as your final goal?  Smaller, louder, lighter, more portable?  Do you need to meet tech riders?
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bren collins

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 09:43:47 am »

Matching tops for the rcf's would be hdl20 boxes 4 a side. Db tech I would use the dva t8. The reason I didn't consider the Jbl srx828 is because I'm looking for more output in the near future. I'm deffinetly not happy with my 4 stx828's, I find myself using 6 on a lot of gigs just to get the output I'm looking for. I'm wanting a sub that i can use 4 of in the future 2 per side and get similar or even more output than I'm getting out of my 6 Jbl stx 828's. The srx828's seem to give similar output as the stx versions, I don't think 4 of them would outrun 6 of there passive cousins. I have around 100 gigs a year 8-10 of those need all 6 of my Jbl subs, in these cases I cross rent 8 rcf hdl20's. Another thing that brings rcf to mind is the fact I have a company 30 minutes from me who has 12 of the hdl20 boxes but not any of the rcf subs. For about 60 of the gigs I use 4 subs and 30 I use 2. I'm trying to expand to a more compact more powerful system. Weight isn't a factor to me as I have many guys carrying/lifting things and a truck that can hold 25,000 pounds. I find myself pushing the system when I'm running just 4 stx828's and 4 srx835's I push it to its absolute limits 95 percent of the time. That all being said for now I could only afford 2 of whatever subs I decide on but by the end of year could have 4 and then purchase matching tops sometime next year. I have 2 tech riders every year that does want something either rcf db tech Jbl Vtx or it states or similar quality on those gigs i sub out the gigs to another sound company and would like to start being able to do them myself in the next year.
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 11:59:35 am »

So no go on the rcf 8006's whatever I decide on I will be getting one pair for now and later on goto 2 pairs

I wasn't saying that. I have not heard that particular model so I cannot compare them to the Danley's and JTRs that I mentioned. RCF does make quality gear, I am sure those would fill your needs as well.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 05:23:32 pm »

Bren,

Now I have a better idea of why and what you want.  I have listened to and continue to hear good things about the HDL20.  That being said, I was at a day long demo where they were compared with the HDL50's.  Yes it's not a fair comparison and they are in different classes, but the HDL50 is one of the best LA speakers I have ever heard.  I also heard the HDL6 demo at NAMM (12 per side) and was very impressed.  At their price you can get 24 of them for about what 12 HDL20's cost.  In a line array, more boxes are almost always better.

I have db T12's, T8's, and T4's.  I find that two T12's are  more powerful than (3) T8's at about the same cost, but what I said above still applies.  If the choice is (4) T12's a side vs. (6) T8's, I would probably go (6) per side T8's.  I really like the fact the the T series is truly 3-way vs. the 2-way HDL20's. I have heard (4) T12's compared to (6) HDL20's.  IMHO there is a huge difference in quality and output level, again at similar price points.

I have had total rider and BE acceptance for my db Tech system, and first time (using db Tech T series) BE's have been very, very complimentary.  I have personally had very good results with both RCF and db Tech.
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bren collins

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 03:55:10 pm »

What about the hdl10 compared to the hdl 20's? I think I decided on rcf 8006's 1 a side for now and later on going to 2 a side. Main reason for rcf decision is a few people use rcf around me, but I haven't seen any db tech. I have a company around me that use l acoustics but that's out of my price range. Also thanks for all the help to everyone! I bet the hdl 50's ran all over the 20's.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Sub comparison passive and powered upgrade help
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 05:06:54 pm »

Bren

Yes the HDL50's are in a different league than the HDL20's, way different!  I have not heard the HDL10's in a good demo or concert setting, but I would guess they are very close to the HDL20's with just a little less output.  If this is the model the people around you are using, then cross renting can work well for both parties.  If they have TT or another series (even a different HDL model), think again, and consider getting matching units.  The different series will certainly not fly together properly.  You can bet the voicing, limiting, eq, and almost everything else will be very different.  RCF has good and very helpful reps and management here in the USA.  I can't speak for other locals.
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