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Author Topic: Any A/V Dealers Around?  (Read 1912 times)

Jeffry Garcia

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Any A/V Dealers Around?
« on: February 18, 2017, 07:40:45 pm »

Hello All,

I'm trying to find some dealers that work mainly with churches/houses of worship globally. Respond with:

1) City, State/Country
2) Some brands you deal
3) Size of churches you deal with

The main thing I'm trying to accomplish is finding trends in what churches/houses of worship find most important when deciding which equipment/company to use. Maybe different areas find certain things more important than others? What do you all think?
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Rob Spence

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2017, 08:29:38 pm »

Hello All,

I'm trying to find some dealers that work mainly with churches/houses of worship globally. Respond with:

1) City, State/Country
2) Some brands you deal
3) Size of churches you deal with

The main thing I'm trying to accomplish is finding trends in what churches/houses of worship find most important when deciding which equipment/company to use. Maybe different areas find certain things more important than others? What do you all think?

I am curious as to why you want this?


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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2017, 09:05:08 pm »

I am curious as to why you want this?


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Company I work for wants me to develop resources for churches to be able to reference for making good purchasing, training, & design decisions. I figured knowing what other dealers are running into and where may help me develop some of those resources. Would you happen to have any experience in this?
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 09:30:26 pm »

"Hi, I'd like our competitors to help us build value into our offerings, so that way we can try to poach their business."  That's what I read in to this request. :(  A/V dealers work long and hard to develop traits that help them to stand above the competition-- that's all part of being a sales person (and being in the sales industry). Some only handle their geographic area. Others have staff across the country, and travel. Some rely only on word of mouth- others do online sales, some rely on printed catalogs, and some do all. It just depends on the company and what they're comfortable with.

I don't think your employer expects you to ask other A/V companies to share their trade secrets... I can definitely assure you that these A/V sales companies are not going to want to spend time helping a competitor in this manner...

-Ray
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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2017, 09:42:13 pm »

"Hi, I'd like our competitors to help us build value into our offerings, so that way we can try to poach their business."  That's what I read in to this request. :(  A/V dealers work long and hard to develop traits that help them to stand above the competition-- that's all part of being a sales person (and being in the sales industry). Some only handle their geographic area. Others have staff across the country, and travel. Some rely only on word of mouth- others do online sales, some rely on printed catalogs, and some do all. It just depends on the company and what they're comfortable with.

I don't think your employer expects you to ask other A/V companies to share their trade secrets... I can definitely assure you that these A/V sales companies are not going to want to spend time helping a competitor in this manner...

-Ray

I'm not interested in finding/poaching business from any other A/V dealers. Actually if you had any experience in the industry yourself, you would know that most dealers actually work with each other. If one does not carry a certain brand that another does, they have a mutually beneficial relationship that does not require either one "poaching clients". If you yourself are a dealer, any info you have would be greatly appreciated, maybe you carry something I don't or vice versa. Maybe you find that most churches are buying X32's for some reason, maybe you know that most of your churches have a hard time convincing their elders of upgrading their equipment....whatever it is, maybe we can all help each other out to improve our respective companies. If not, I'd appreciate you not ruining the experience for any other people who would find this thread useful.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2017, 09:47:26 pm »

Hello All,

I'm trying to find some dealers that work mainly with churches/houses of worship globally. Respond with:

1) City, State/Country
2) Some brands you deal
3) Size of churches you deal with

The main thing I'm trying to accomplish is finding trends in what churches/houses of worship find most important when deciding which equipment/company to use. Maybe different areas find certain things more important than others? What do you all think?

I think we could better help if you let us know:

1. Your City, State/Country
2. Brands that you may have in mind or experience with
3. Size of your church (I'm assuming you are working for a church)

You may have some very good dealers/installers in your area.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 09:51:57 pm by Jamin Lynch »
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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2017, 09:53:54 pm »

I think we could better help if you let us know:

1. Your City, State/Country
2. Brands that you may have in mind or experience with
3. Size of your church

You may have some very good dealers/installers in your area.

1) Corona, CA USA!
2) Deal over 300 brands but churches seem to stray towards yamaha, behringer, midas, shure, qsc, bose
3) Most of our churches are anywhere from 500-1000 congregation but have dealth with much larger and much smaller.

(I don't work at a church, they are my companies client base)

Locally, I've seen most churches requesting training for their inexperienced audio techs, so I've been developing some very basic training videos and content for them. What about yourself?
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 10:44:24 pm »

Let me google that for you...

But seriously - the help church members get here is pretty consistent and excellent.  Read a couple of the "what do you think of these shit-tastic no name speakers I bought from banjo hut" threads and you will learn the approach. 

Any dealer that works regularly in the cash for Jesus industry is going to tell you they have a range of clients from traditional to non traditional that have a range of needs.   The trend is the same as the rest of the industry, as technology makes certain effects, features, and items more affordable, smaller and less funded groups expect more and more to play with the big boys.   This should surprise no one.


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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 12:07:11 am »

Let me google that for you...

But seriously - the help church members get here is pretty consistent and excellent.  Read a couple of the "what do you think of these shit-tastic no name speakers I bought from banjo hut" threads and you will learn the approach. 

Any dealer that works regularly in the cash for Jesus industry is going to tell you they have a range of clients from traditional to non traditional that have a range of needs.   The trend is the same as the rest of the industry, as technology makes certain effects, features, and items more affordable, smaller and less funded groups expect more and more to play with the big boys.   This should surprise no one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good suggestion to go back and look at the forum posts where extremely experienced engineers belittle the inexperienced ones for just not knowing what they don't  know... Great information for someone who already knows what they need to do, not so much for those who don't. I'm glad I got a few PM's from some people willing to offer some feedback.

It seems like there seems to be a lot of confusion about what I'm looking for.... Just A/V dealers willing to spread the knowledge. If you are not comfortable with it, no problem thanks for reading. If you're not an A/V dealer, your input is not necessary.  If you are an A/V, I would really appreciate you answers!
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2017, 10:08:24 am »

Good suggestion to go back and look at the forum posts where extremely experienced engineers belittle the inexperienced ones for just not knowing what they don't  know... Great information for someone who already knows what they need to do, not so much for those who don't. I'm glad I got a few PM's from some people willing to offer some feedback.

It seems like there seems to be a lot of confusion about what I'm looking for.... Just A/V dealers willing to spread the knowledge. If you are not comfortable with it, no problem thanks for reading. If you're not an A/V dealer, your input is not necessary.  If you are an A/V, I would really appreciate you answers!

If you think experienced people here are belittling the inexperienced then you clearly don't understand the help being provided.  A refusal to reinforce or support poor choices and ask questions to get posters to see and consider their options is not belittling.  Some people aren't ready to admit they may of made a poor choice or need to go back to the drawing board.   That's fine, its up to them, but that doesn't lessen the value of advice here.  there is a method there to help users arrive at what they NEED.

As a dealer - you help clients get what they need.  It's that simple.  Don't over sell them shit they don't need, don't sell them crap even if they insist it's what they want.  Educate them along the way. If you can do that, you will build a loyal customer base and get referrals that will keep you busy.  It's about relationship building.

It's really that simple.


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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 11:30:08 am »

Good suggestion to go back and look at the forum posts where extremely experienced engineers belittle the inexperienced ones for just not knowing what they don't  know... Great information for someone who already knows what they need to do, not so much for those who don't. I'm glad I got a few PM's from some people willing to offer some feedback.

It seems like there seems to be a lot of confusion about what I'm looking for.... Just A/V dealers willing to spread the knowledge. If you are not comfortable with it, no problem thanks for reading. If you're not an A/V dealer, your input is not necessary.  If you are an A/V, I would really appreciate you answers!


“O Deep Thought computer," he said, "the task we have designed you to perform is this. We want you to tell us...." he paused, "The Answer."
"The Answer?" said Deep Thought. "The Answer to what?"
"Life!" urged Fook.
"The Universe!" said Lunkwill.
"Everything!" they said in chorus.
Deep Thought paused for a moment's reflection.
"Tricky," he said finally.
"But can you do it?"
Again, a significant pause.
"Yes," said Deep Thought, "I can do it."
"There is an answer?" said Fook with breathless excitement.
"Yes," said Deep Thought. "Life, the Universe, and Everything. There is an answer. But, I'll have to think about it."
...
Fook glanced impatiently at his watch.
“How long?” he said.
“Seven and a half million years,” said Deep Thought.
Lunkwill and Fook blinked at each other.
“Seven and a half million years...!” they cried in chorus.
“Yes,” declaimed Deep Thought, “I said I’d have to think about it, didn’t I?"

You want fries with that???

« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 12:18:14 pm by dick rees »
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2017, 01:54:56 pm »

I'm not interested in finding/poaching business from any other A/V dealers. Actually if you had any experience in the industry yourself, you would know that most dealers actually work with each other. If one does not carry a certain brand that another does, they have a mutually beneficial relationship that does not require either one "poaching clients". If you yourself are a dealer, any info you have would be greatly appreciated, maybe you carry something I don't or vice versa. Maybe you find that most churches are buying X32's for some reason, maybe you know that most of your churches have a hard time convincing their elders of upgrading their equipment....whatever it is, maybe we can all help each other out to improve our respective companies. If not, I'd appreciate you not ruining the experience for any other people who would find this thread useful.
Hi Jeffry,

Sorry, I wasn't clear before. What trends are YOUR company seeing?

It's cool that they want you to develop resources, etc, to help your clients-- but those types of buying guides are really best developed based on YOUR experience. What trends are you seeing? What are the churches buying? What's happening here in the PNW is probably different compared to what you're seeing in California. And what we see here on the West Coast is likely different than what Jamin sees in Texas.

Now, that's all predicated on the assumption that your company has been selling product for some time, and have that history to rely on. But, if your company is just starting into product installation/sales, then I understand your POV for the initial question.

- Training: Yes, always a good thing, and a great way to sell service to the church. But, making sure it's timely, relevant and effective for the church technical staff is vital. If the staff doesn't want to learn, that's a problem. If you don't have a good trainer on staff (and not every live production person would make a good trainer!), then the message won't get through. If they're moving from an analog to a digital console, and you keep talking about stage basics, well, that's not relevant. They need to learn about the new workflow they'll encounter on their digital console. And so on.

- Scope of projects: Every church is different (naturally). And, church size also doesn't always reflect the budget they have to work with. A small church with a very affluent congregation may have more to spend per capita than a large church in an area that's not doing so hot economically. Additionally, every church has different needs- there is no "One Size Fits All" solution.

- The Wrong Product At The Right Price Is Still The Wrong Product. And, Buy Once, Cry Once. And Why Churches Buy 3 Sound Systems, And You Can Help Them Buy Just One. That last one is a great resource you can share with your new clients, and let them know how you're going to fit into the equation.

Hope this helps!

-Ray
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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2017, 02:29:37 pm »

Hi Jeffry,

Sorry, I wasn't clear before. What trends are YOUR company seeing?

It's cool that they want you to develop resources, etc, to help your clients-- but those types of buying guides are really best developed based on YOUR experience. What trends are you seeing? What are the churches buying? What's happening here in the PNW is probably different compared to what you're seeing in California. And what we see here on the West Coast is likely different than what Jamin sees in Texas.

Now, that's all predicated on the assumption that your company has been selling product for some time, and have that history to rely on. But, if your company is just starting into product installation/sales, then I understand your POV for the initial question.

- Training: Yes, always a good thing, and a great way to sell service to the church. But, making sure it's timely, relevant and effective for the church technical staff is vital. If the staff doesn't want to learn, that's a problem. If you don't have a good trainer on staff (and not every live production person would make a good trainer!), then the message won't get through. If they're moving from an analog to a digital console, and you keep talking about stage basics, well, that's not relevant. They need to learn about the new workflow they'll encounter on their digital console. And so on.

- Scope of projects: Every church is different (naturally). And, church size also doesn't always reflect the budget they have to work with. A small church with a very affluent congregation may have more to spend per capita than a large church in an area that's not doing so hot economically. Additionally, every church has different needs- there is no "One Size Fits All" solution.

- The Wrong Product At The Right Price Is Still The Wrong Product. And, Buy Once, Cry Once. And Why Churches Buy 3 Sound Systems, And You Can Help Them Buy Just One. That last one is a great resource you can share with your new clients, and let them know how you're going to fit into the equation.

Hope this helps!

-Ray


Hey Ray,

The company itself has been selling for quite some time and has a good track record, but I was brought in recently to develop and implement new resources for a variety of reasons and industries (DJ's, Musicians, Schools, Stadiums, etc). The way all their data has been tracked is OK, but I don't have the numbers I need to be able to develop specific content for certain groups. For example, if I knew that in Texas we had 25 churches we work with, and 18 of them needed on-going training because they tend cycle through volunteers I can come up with something for them. Furthermore, if out of those 18 churches, I knew that 15 of them were 1,000+ congregation, I'd be able to create content that goes for any church that buys certain products with a congregation of 1000+.

From me asking these questions directly to churches in a different manner, I have been able to find some pretty interesting stuff. For example, newer worship pastors have trouble convincing the elders to approve new gear while worship pastors who have been there longer don't run into that problem as often (of course they still have to justify spending, it's just not pulling teeth). I know it seems obvious, but knowing little things like this allows dealers like us fine tune our pitches and resources!

I really appreciate your feedback and it does help! Especially this

"Scope of projects: Every church is different (naturally). And, church size also doesn't always reflect the budget they have to work with. A small church with a very affluent congregation may have more to spend per capita than a large church in an area that's not doing so hot economically. Additionally, every church has different needs- there is no "One Size Fits All" solution. "

I like the point you make about church size, I could use that. Thanks again!
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2017, 03:13:09 pm »

One thing I can tell you that is consistent at just about every H.O.W. is money.

The only difference is the scale.

Trying to convince a small church with a low budget why they should not make purchases based solely on the lowest price is often times difficult to do.

While at the same time the large churches with higher budgets often believe "just because it cost more it must be better."

Or my favorite, "We called some of the other large churches around the country and this is what they are doing."

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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 03:34:34 pm »

One thing I can tell you that is consistent at just about every H.O.W. is money.

The only difference is the scale.

Trying to convince a small church with a low budget why they should not make purchases based solely on the lowest price is often times difficult to do.

While at the same time the large churches with higher budgets often believe "just because it cost more it must be better."

Or my favorite, "We called some of the other large churches around the country and this is what they are doing."

That is probably the most common thing I run into... "What is the best product you can get me for the cheapest price". This is where our design software comes in handy to show them that what they are asking for won't work for them. I like to entertain what they're asking for just so they can be shown that it wouldn't work. That brings the walls down and opens them up to more realistic suggestions.

But I understand both sides of the wall. On our side we want to make sure that our clients are provided the RIGHT equipment for they're specific needs while churches go through a sometimes long and frustrating approval process for budget.

Money will always be an issue, it's the American way! lol
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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2017, 03:44:00 pm »

JG...

They'll always have the money for what they want but not for what they need.  Oh for a "polarity flip" option on their priorities.
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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2017, 03:47:26 pm »

JG...

They'll always have the money for what they want but not for what they need.  Oh for a "polarity flip" option on their priorities.

That goes for everything for ANYTHING not just audio lol. I'm guilty of the same mindset at times...
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2017, 09:10:59 pm »

Actually if you had any experience in the industry yourself, you would know that most dealers actually work with each other. If one does not carry a certain brand that another does, they have a mutually beneficial relationship that does not require either one "poaching clients".
I have worked directly in the Church install market and been around it for about 20yrs.

I have never seen dealers work with each other as you describe.

I have been on projects in which one dealer handles one part of the job and another handles another.

The "usual" result is a serious MESS.  Especially when it comes to service calls.

Let's say dealer 1 provides the console and dealer 2 provides the speaker system.

One day the system does not pass any audio.

Who do you call? If you call dealer 2 (because no sound is coming out of the speakers) and they show up and spends time and expenses getting to the job, only to find that the output of the console (that dealer 1 provided) is defective.

Does dealer 2 get to bill dealer 1?  or the client?  Even if the system is under warranty?

YES, I have seen this exact type of thing happen a couple of times.

When ONE dealer provides the whole system, then they will be responsible.

HOWEVER-it can also get more complicated.

In one case we were required to provide a fire alarm contact that would turn off the sound system (law in many areas).

The sound system would not turn on.  I drove 5 hours and found that the actual problem was the relay in the FIRE ALARM panel.

Everything in the audio turn on system was working fine.

I don't think we got to bill for that time (around 11 hours round trip).

Things are not always so "cut and dry".
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Jeffry Garcia

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2017, 08:44:41 pm »

I have worked directly in the Church install market and been around it for about 20yrs.

I have never seen dealers work with each other as you describe.

I have been on projects in which one dealer handles one part of the job and another handles another.

The "usual" result is a serious MESS.  Especially when it comes to service calls.

Let's say dealer 1 provides the console and dealer 2 provides the speaker system.

One day the system does not pass any audio.

Who do you call? If you call dealer 2 (because no sound is coming out of the speakers) and they show up and spends time and expenses getting to the job, only to find that the output of the console (that dealer 1 provided) is defective.

Does dealer 2 get to bill dealer 1?  or the client?  Even if the system is under warranty?

YES, I have seen this exact type of thing happen a couple of times.

When ONE dealer provides the whole system, then they will be responsible.

HOWEVER-it can also get more complicated.

In one case we were required to provide a fire alarm contact that would turn off the sound system (law in many areas).

The sound system would not turn on.  I drove 5 hours and found that the actual problem was the relay in the FIRE ALARM panel.

Everything in the audio turn on system was working fine.

I don't think we got to bill for that time (around 11 hours round trip).

Things are not always so "cut and dry".

You're right. In that scenario it sounds extremely messy. I was talking about a scenario more like:

A local A/V dealer, let's call him dealer 1, has a long time client ask them for a product that they are not dealers for. That A/V dealer knows another A/V dealer that is, let's call him A/V dealer 2. Dealer 1 reaches out to Dealer 2 and asks him to get him a deal on that brand. Boom, mutually beneficial relationship that helps both dealers.

Taking on projects together is a totally different beast.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Any A/V Dealers Around?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 10:06:33 am »

Jeffry,

I see you posted your question to the Church Facebook group. It seems like all you are after is a list of A/V dealers/installers in the country with their associated location/area.

You'd probably have gotten a better response if your question was worded:

"Hey guys, I wanna compile a list of where everyone is located so if I get someone asking about an install in so-and-so area I can refer them to you"

The way I see it is you got the cold shoulder or reluctant treatment here because you are:
A) new
B) seeming to be asking for nefarious purposes (your own gain)
C) wasn't open about why

Welcome, and best of luck on your endeavors!
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