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Author Topic: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe  (Read 3619 times)

dick rees

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 12:46:55 pm »

Having played music on both sides of the pond, my experience is that the European/Scandinavian production standards are higher on the east side of the pond.  I can't listen to 95% of what passes for sound in the U.S..

But the depressing thing is that the audiences here don't know or don't care. 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 12:59:02 pm »



But the depressing thing is that the audiences here don't know or don't care.
When you are constantly surrounded by bad sound (not just performance-but everywhere you go), you just start to "accept" that is the way it is.

BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE that bad.

But when the budget can't/won't afford decent, you end up with crap because "that is what other people have and it is good enough".

Manufacturers don't help any by putting out cheaper and cheaper products and people will buy them because of price alone-as long as it makes some kind of sound.

When all you have every eaten is McDonalds, that may be fine-until you've had a nice Filet, THEN  you start to realize there is a difference.

But until you've heard it, your "standards" will remain low.
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jesseweiss

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 03:18:58 pm »

In my opinion-there is nothing wrong with mixing brands in subs and tops.

I hear people say all the time "Well so and so sub is "designed" to work the the same tops in the line".

And I ask (I have yet to get a reply), other than physical size (looks) and possible stacking/locking or presets, how is ANY particular sub "designed" to work with particular tops??????

I can not imagine how you could do this.

Maybe it is some "designing" that I am not aware of.

In your case-it had to simply be a bad job of alignment.

I fell it is just something people say-without thinking about it.

I could be wrong-but just am not aware.

I think it's just presets.  Like the SRM1850 we have is "designed" to work with the SRM550's and 650's.  Translated that means it has presets for the crossover frequencies for those tops.  Of course, it doesn't entirely much to just look what frequency to use, so it's really a marketing ploy.
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Randy Pence

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2017, 04:46:08 pm »

Other desk brands we don't use often here: Mackie and cheap ones like behringer, alto etc.Yamaha is not happening, except the older digital desks, like M7CL and LS9. The newer ones i haven't seen in the wild yet. The older analog PM series was also a rarity.

Off topic but ok:

Been to Chech republic on small tour around 2005: KV2 and a few Martin rigs. Maybe i was lucky.
Went to Bosnia for two humanitarian tours around 2000. That was scary... Brought a nice d&b C4 rig. It only needed power...

American living in Berlin since 2003 here...

Boutique brands have challenges on either side of the pond regarding distribution and support.  Import duties affect everyone.

I've seen plenty of mackie, behringer, and other low budget gear.  Thomann likely sells plenty of qsc stuff, as I've seen a lot of it.  Meyer is doing fine.  Vertecs have toured.  Crest amps and analog desks, too.  One massive complex I worked for had a yamaha m3000a board.  Never seen any Outline here, despite being a european brand.  JBL Control 1s dominate restaurant and bar background systems.  The larger rental shops indeed tend to carry exclsuively higher quality gear, but don't forget about all the outlaw party sound system people who came about with mixing and matching.  Speakerplans.com is a good look into the british side of that.

PSAV even has branches here, but the german office went L'Acoustic.

Why so much german stuff?  Long cultural history of production and music. 

It is true that a number of brands do not have nearly the reach on opposite continents, but again, chalk it up to distribution and support networks.  EV made a bigger dent here due to being owned by Bosch.  Other conglomerations likely have resulted in greater pond crossing of other brands.
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dick rees

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2017, 05:32:15 pm »

It's not as simple as gear.  It has more to do with high production values extending further down the user chain.
If things haven't changed a lot in the last 20 years, I'd say both the local skill level was higher on average and folks don't mind paying for quality production as opposed to your alcohol vending venues who care only about paying off their boat.
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Helge Dr. Bentsen

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 05:49:21 pm »

A thing often overlooked by US manufacturers is packaging, something very important to a lot of european customers.

Think turn-key systems. Not that many years ago you couldn't buy a tour-ready sound system from a large US manufacturer.

Compare that to the d&B/Kling&Freitag/L-Acoustic price list.

Speakers, cables, brackets, flights, wheelboards, covers,  adapter plates, amps, racks, breakouts, presets etc. ready to go from the start. Lately the US manufacturers have gotten better, but I still think they need to look closer at this.

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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 10:03:26 pm »

I've read some interesting points of view. Hope you all did.

Regarding the tops/subs thing: again, it was fine. Sounded great. Of course i don't mind what kind or brand the PA consists of, as long as it is decent and known. In my case it was two Meyer MSL tops, with 8 l' Acoustics dual 18's dual line, single endfire, outside. Nobody coul care less. But we are talking about SMALL sound reinforcent.

But what Dick Rees said is what my gut feeling is, if i'm honest...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:47:11 pm by Geert Friedhof »
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Randy Pence

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2017, 02:33:12 pm »

It's not as simple as gear.  It has more to do with high production values extending further down the user chain.
If things haven't changed a lot in the last 20 years, I'd say both the local skill level was higher on average and folks don't mind paying for quality production as opposed to your alcohol vending venues who care only about paying off their boat.

Speaking again for the german market, I have encountered few techs for proper venues and shops who have not gone through a multi-year apprenticeship.  We all know that even being certified by some external educational facility is no guarantee in being any good in the field, but it does stop a lot of charlatans from getting far enough to be dangerous.
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Randy Pence

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2017, 02:37:12 pm »

I've read some interesting points of view. Hope you all did.

Regarding the tops/subs thing: again, it was fine. Sounded great. Of course i don't mind what kind or brand the PA consists of, as long as it is decent and known. In my case it was two Meyer MSL tops, with 8 l' Acoustics dual 18's dual line, single endfire, outside. Nobody coul care less. But we are talking about SMALL sound reinforcent.

But what Dick Rees said is what my gut feeling is, if i'm honest...

Size of gig hasnt been relevant in my experience.  A small corporate event for 50 people requires just as much professionalism  as for hundreds or thousands, and a promoter can draw thousands for some shitty event. It's just about scaling. 
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Rick Powell

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2017, 03:31:28 pm »

Speaking again for the german market, I have encountered few techs for proper venues and shops who have not gone through a multi-year apprenticeship.  We all know that even being certified by some external educational facility is no guarantee in being any good in the field, but it does stop a lot of charlatans from getting far enough to be dangerous.

What, is everyone a Tönmeister over there?
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