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Author Topic: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe  (Read 14077 times)

Randy Pence

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2017, 06:19:29 PM »

As a USA ex-pat you may remember that here we have this huge 'group arrogance' wherein folks think that because they can make noise come out of their home theater setup or karaoke/DJ/PA rig they have become experts with no need to further their skills, abilities or to advance in their craft.  Throw in a pervasive anti-learning sentiment coupled with a "there's an app for that" mentality and it does not surprise me that much of today's audio is not better that the good old days.  Manufacturer's have made it easier than ever to make reasonable good sound - the gear is better than it's ever been - but the aural result still varies from *sucks out loud* to "hey, that's pretty nice".  Better gear has made it easier to hit the top end of that result scale but has done little to raise the bottom of the scale (human factors).

Ivan pointed out that ultimately it's up to paying audiences to vote with their feet/money.  With the "stuck in your ear where everything is the same level" source of comparison, I don't hold out any realistic hope that better sound (systems and especially mixes) will result from a consumer demand.

Don't forget, I've spent a long time in the dj end of the pool, where even in berlin people get impressed by hearing their new favorite song louder than in their living room.  I actually had an SAE grad  producer and dj tell me that ground stacking was superior as flown speakers would sway back and forth from their own output and smear the sound.  However, he isnt working for any provider.  Providers here, large and small, have to send out capable staff to a talking heads gig one day where every word needs to be understood and to a concert or dj gig the next where they rely on the manufactures presets and prediction software.

Bad sound can have consequences.  One provider fucked up the hangs for a show, as in it was louder at the bar than at foh, and foh was half the distance to the stage.  Last I saw them in the venue for a while..
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2017, 10:52:40 AM »

I amazes me how many people still enjoy (dancing smiling etc) REALLY BAD sound.

It is like you can stick up the worst sounding speaker you can find-and people (some anyway) will start to "groove".

It is like-as long as it is cheap-many people will buy it.  They understand that spending more does not equal more sales-so why bother.

Just look at the overall "trend" of products.

How many manufacturers are trying to make products truly SOUND better?  Most are racing to the bottom to see how cheap they can make them.

Maybe they understand more than I do.

REALLY sad.

I agree. I spend a lot of money & effort to provide higher quality sound. People are used to crappy sound, especially in my area. There really are no high end sound venues here, I'm hoping to change that in a year or two. Of course when you do provide better sound, it is very noticeable to me that people are more into the music, have more energy, and stay longer.
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Lance Hallmark
Hallmark Events & Entertainment
Chamsys, Crown, Danley, EV, JTR, Powersoft, Yamaha

Lance Hallmark

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2017, 11:17:30 AM »

I can barely hold back my excitement when I see."live DJ" advertised ..

It's sad you're so closed minded. As with any musical performance, there are great, artistic DJs who can do amazing things and create a great musical vibe and experience for hundreds or thousands of fans. There are also crappy DJs who don't know anything about sound, just as there are plenty of crappy bands and sound providers. Different talents and different vibes than live music for sure, but both can be equally uplifting and satisfying. Personally, I wouldn't want my life devoid of either. I may not like every genre of music, but I respect the people who are making it and they are passionate about it, whether it's is crappy, tired classic rock renditions or crappy Hip Hop or EDM.
I know it's cool to bash on DJs but generally the crappy ones aren't really on this board, just like most of the bad sound peeps aren't either. I love the knowledge base here, but get tired of the unwarranted bashing. If there's a valid reason, bash away, I'll be right there with you.
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Lance Hallmark
Hallmark Events & Entertainment
Chamsys, Crown, Danley, EV, JTR, Powersoft, Yamaha

Steve Garris

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »

It's sad you're so closed minded. As with any musical performance, there are great, artistic DJs who can do amazing things and create a great musical vibe and experience for hundreds or thousands of fans. There are also crappy DJs who don't know anything about sound, just as there are plenty of crappy bands and sound providers. Different talents and different vibes than live music for sure, but both can be equally uplifting and satisfying. Personally, I wouldn't want my life devoid of either. I may not like every genre of music, but I respect the people who are making it and they are passionate about it, whether it's is crappy, tired classic rock renditions or crappy Hip Hop or EDM.
I know it's cool to bash on DJs but generally the crappy ones aren't really on this board, just like most of the bad sound peeps aren't either. I love the knowledge base here, but get tired of the unwarranted bashing. If there's a valid reason, bash away, I'll be right there with you.

They're just mad because the DJ's make more money & have bigger crowds  8)
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Rick Powell

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2017, 11:45:04 AM »

not if it went over the n  8)

Toñmeister!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 11:48:25 AM by Rick Powell »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2017, 12:00:09 PM »

It's sad you're so closed minded. As with any musical performance, there are great, artistic DJs who can do amazing things and create a great musical vibe and experience for hundreds or thousands of fans. There are also crappy DJs who don't know anything about sound, just as there are plenty of crappy bands and sound providers.
I have worked with all genres of music and many different "DJs" over my decades in the industry.

I have only run across 2 DJs that I enjoyed.

One was back in the late 80s with turntables.

I was truly amazed at how he was using them to pick out certain lines on one table to add to the other table that was playing.

The other was during a 3 day EDM fest in the California desert.

I was taking an nap one evening and somehow I felt the music that was being played was "different".

After laying there for a little while, I got up and went out front to listen.

I really enjoyed the way it seemed as if he was "abusing" the sound system.  Everything was running fine-but this had a different cool effect.

I only got to listen for about 20 minutes til his set was up.

I wish I had gotten up earlier.

But it takes something special for me to "get excited" about music or really into it.

It does not happen very often.  Live or DJ.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Randy Pence

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2017, 06:26:57 AM »

It's sad you're so closed minded. As with any musical performance, there are great, artistic DJs who can do amazing things and create a great musical vibe and experience for hundreds or thousands of fans. There are also crappy DJs who don't know anything about sound, just as there are plenty of crappy bands and sound providers. Different talents and different vibes than live music for sure, but both can be equally uplifting and satisfying. Personally, I wouldn't want my life devoid of either. I may not like every genre of music, but I respect the people who are making it and they are passionate about it, whether it's is crappy, tired classic rock renditions or crappy Hip Hop or EDM.
I know it's cool to bash on DJs but generally the crappy ones aren't really on this board, just like most of the bad sound peeps aren't either. I love the knowledge base here, but get tired of the unwarranted bashing. If there's a valid reason, bash away, I'll be right there with you.

With all due respect, I don't think many advertised as "live DJ" are going to be the intrepid music purveyors you are moved by
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Uniz Kazz

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2017, 08:26:04 AM »

How are the KS Audio boxes? Their passive boxes seem to require that you only buy their amplification and controllers (not unlike nexo's PS series). Could I not match them with other high quality amps with DSP and get as good results ?


@John:

I'm not saying what is good or bad. It is only an personal observation about differences in equipment used and (business) practices in the lower end of the market. And i observe that a lot of recommendations are based on brands used in the USA.

About different markets: This thread is meant only for smaller sound reinforcement. When things get bigger the differences get smaller, strangely enough.

About Danley: as stated i only heard it once: EDM over SM80? with TH118. It sounded very nice. Only saying it is not (yet) a big name here, same as Fulcrum. But we have brands like KS Audio, Kling&Freitag, Fohhn etc which are quite known over here, but not in the states.

About mixing brands: Seen the ;) ? Of course it was fine. It is just not common practice, even on small gigs.

Again: only observing, and trying to find out why.
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Randy Pence

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2017, 09:13:20 AM »

How are the KS Audio boxes? Their passive boxes seem to require that you only buy their amplification and controllers (not unlike nexo's PS series). Could I not match them with other high quality amps with DSP and get as good results ?

given how relatively unknown that brand is, i would imagine that buying their system amps is a smarter choice over brewing up your own dsp parameters, for rider acceptance (if they have any) and resale value
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Bob Kidd

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Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2017, 10:33:50 AM »

It's not as simple as gear.  It has more to do with high production values extending further down the user chain.
If things haven't changed a lot in the last 20 years, I'd say both the local skill level was higher on average and folks don't mind paying for quality production as opposed to your alcohol vending venues who care only about paying off their boat.

+1000

Doing mostly private and bar gigs, from what I see it's not the systems but the ones operating. Most just purchase gear without taking the time to educate themselves.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Differences in small/medium sound reinforcement USA and Northern Europe
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2017, 10:33:50 AM »


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