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[Geert Friedhof]

Having read this forum a lot made me think about differences in small sound reinforcement culture.
And with small i mean <500 caps.

It seems to me that what is customary in the States is not always the case in N-Europe and vice versa.

A lot of equipment recommendations might be valid for the States, but not so for N-Europe. Here in Northern Europe we almost never use JRX/MRX/PRX, Yamaha, QSC or Yorkville.  Only heard Danley once. We use RCF, EV ETX, SRX/VRX or German makes. And even the smaller rental companies use d&b, Nexo, l'Acoustics, EAW (getting less) or Martin. Same with desks: Never seen an Avid or QSC.

We(?) also don't mix and match speaker brands. Well, almost never... A few months ago i had to mix over a mix of Meyer tops with l'Acoustics subs, the horror...

And over here a DJ is what it is: only a DJ. Brings his/her music. Not a PA and flashy lights. Same with bands. The organizer/bar owner provides the PA (and tech). Only very small bars (<50 cap) make do with the band's 'PA'.

Overall the only time i encounter what could be labeled DJ or MI grade PA's is in rehearsal rooms.

Maybe it's a geographical thing: in a 10 mile radius you can find at least 5 decent sound rentals. Maybe it's a competitive thing: in a 10 mile radius you can find at least 5 decent live bands on a weekend day.
Maybe it's pride? From the rental company or bar owner i mean.
Maybe the bands are spoiled rotten?

Any other observations?

[scottstephens]

Geert,

A hundred years ago when I traveled the world, The consoles we used were Midas XL3 & XL 4 and A&H ML 3000, & 5000 were everywhere. I've never seen an ML series here on this side of the pond. I'm sure they were here, I just never saw them. Speakers were for the most part...I think... it's been a long time, d&b, outline and maybe EAW or Meyer type clones. "Line Arrays" weren't  happening yet. I did see a couple of
Clair S4 rigs.

We traveled mostly in England, Germany, and Belgium and one time to Poland and the chech republic...That was scary.
Scott
 

[John Rutirasiri]

Here in Northern Europe we almost never use JRX/MRX/PRX, Yamaha, QSC or Yorkville.  Only heard Danley once. We use RCF, EV ETX, SRX/VRX or German makes. And even the smaller rental companies use d&b, Nexo, l'Acoustics, EAW (getting less) or Martin. Same with desks: Never seen an Avid or QSC.

We(?) also don't mix and match speaker brands. Well, almost never... A few months ago i had to mix over a mix of Meyer tops with l'Acoustics subs, the horror...

And over here a DJ is what it is: only a DJ. Brings his/her music. Not a PA and flashy lights. Same with bands. The organizer/bar owner provides the PA (and tech). Only very small bars (<50 cap) make do with the band's 'PA'.

Overall the only time i encounter what could be labeled DJ or MI grade PA's is in rehearsal rooms.

Maybe it's a geographical thing: in a 10 mile radius you can find at least 5 decent sound rentals. Maybe it's a competitive thing: in a 10 mile radius you can find at least 5 decent live bands on a weekend day.
Maybe it's pride? From the rental company or bar owner i mean.
Maybe the bands are spoiled rotten?

Any other observations?

There are different market segments in the States: bars, weddings, school dances, street festivals, corporate, concerts, national acts, etc.  Each market has different types and sizes of sound/AV companies tailored for their markets and budget: DJ's with their own equipment (and varying levels of equipment), lone operators/sole proprietors, small companies with limited resources, larger regional companies, in-house companies like PSAV and Encore, and touring companies like Clearwing or Claire.

What equipment one can afford obviously depends on the resources, their intended market, and ROI.  It would make no sense for someone who does mostly bars to spend money on say, K-Array or Dynacord.  He or she most likely does not have to worry about riders.  The customer would not be willing to pay for what the operator needs to charge for such systems.  "Bang for the buck" is more significant than brand name for folks who are not regional and touring level companies.  "Pride" can't put food on the table.

Now I do not know of many people who do sound for a living using JBL JRX gears.  It's pretty crappy stuff IMO.  JRX line is targeted for people who walk into brick and mortar music stores and have limited budget.  I've only seen them with DJ's who are starting out and in churches.  MRX has long since been discontinued (and was actually decent.)  PRX line is popular because they perform exceptionally well for what they cost.  Not quite SRX, but close.  In powered speakers, QSC, Yamaha, JBL, EV rules here because they are so good for what they cost.

Danley is one of several boutique brands popular in the US.  They are well-known for installations and popular with many small and medium-sized live sound operators.  I love my Danley gears -- they are world class and will easily hang with the best from the States or Europe.  Just because you haven't heard of the name or the brand is not in use in Europe doesn't mean it's not capable.  We did a show where Fifth Harmony was the headliner, and the BE's were blown away with our Danley stuff.

I see nothing wrong with mixing different brands of tops and subs.  It is very common here.  Why did you have trouble with mixing Meyer tops and L'Acoustic subs?  Did you properly set the crossover and EQ the room/system, or do you depend on presets?

John R.

[Geert Friedhof]

Other desk brands we don't use often here: Mackie and cheap ones like behringer, alto etc.Yamaha is not happening, except the older digital desks, like M7CL and LS9. The newer ones i haven't seen in the wild yet. The older analog PM series was also a rarity.

Off topic but ok:

Been to Chech republic on small tour around 2005: KV2 and a few Martin rigs. Maybe i was lucky.
Went to Bosnia for two humanitarian tours around 2000. That was scary... Brought a nice d&b C4 rig. It only needed power...

[Geert Friedhof]

@John:

I'm not saying what is good or bad. It is only an personal observation about differences in equipment used and (business) practices in the lower end of the market. And i observe that a lot of recommendations are based on brands used in the USA.

About different markets: This thread is meant only for smaller sound reinforcement. When things get bigger the differences get smaller, strangely enough.

About Danley: as stated i only heard it once: EDM over SM80? with TH118. It sounded very nice. Only saying it is not (yet) a big name here, same as Fulcrum. But we have brands like KS Audio, Kling&Freitag, Fohhn etc which are quite known over here, but not in the states.

About mixing brands: Seen the ? Of course it was fine. It is just not common practice, even on small gigs.

Again: only observing, and trying to find out why.

[Nathan Riddle]

Having read this forum a lot made me think about differences in small sound reinforcement culture.
And with small i mean <500 caps.

It seems to me that what is customary in the States is not always the case in N-Europe and vice versa.

Maybe it's a geographical thing: in a 10 mile radius you can find at least 5 decent sound rentals. Maybe it's a competitive thing: in a 10 mile radius you can find at least 5 decent live bands on a weekend day.
Maybe it's pride? From the rental company or bar owner i mean.
Maybe the bands are spoiled rotten?

Any other observations?

Now I haven't been to Europe, but the thing that came to mind when reading this was population density; purely speculation but perhaps that is why the ROI is greater than in the states allowing for a more standardized 'weapon set'?

Perhaps because of import taxation the RCF/German gear is more cost effective in Europe?

Not sure, just what my limited experiences made me think of.

[Geert Friedhof]

Now I haven't been to Europe, but the thing that came to mind when reading this was population density; purely speculation but perhaps that is why the ROI is greater than in the states allowing for a more standardized 'weapon set'?

Perhaps because of import taxation the RCF/German gear is more cost effective in Europe?

Not sure, just what my limited experiences made me think of.

Both valid points i think.

Another thing: preference for a certain type of PA voicing.
And another thing: crossrental, being all close together (but not TOO close )

[Geert Friedhof]

But yet, when it comes to mic's, it is very much the same: Shure, AKG, Sennheiser, EV as usual, Neumann and DPA if available.

[Ray Aberle]

And i observe that a lot of recommendations are based on brands used in the USA.

I believe (and a moderator can confirm/dispute this) that a majority of our users on here are based in the US. So, it would make sense that most recommendations would be for brands readily available here in the US.

About different markets: This thread is meant only for smaller sound reinforcement. When things get bigger the differences get smaller, strangely enough.

About Danley: as stated i only heard it once: EDM over SM80? with TH118. It sounded very nice. Only saying it is not (yet) a big name here, same as Fulcrum. But we have brands like KS Audio, Kling&Freitag, Fohhn etc which are quite known over here, but not in the states.

About mixing brands: Seen the ? Of course it was fine. It is just not common practice, even on small gigs.

Again: only observing, and trying to find out why.

Trying to find out why..... what? I'm not sure what you're asking about here.

-Ray

[Ivan Beaver]

We(?) also don't mix and match speaker brands. Well, almost never... A few months ago i had to mix over a mix of Meyer tops with l'Acoustics subs, the horror...

In my opinion-there is nothing wrong with mixing brands in subs and tops.

I hear people say all the time "Well so and so sub is "designed" to work the the same tops in the line".

And I ask (I have yet to get a reply), other than physical size (looks) and possible stacking/locking or presets, how is ANY particular sub "designed" to work with particular tops???

I can not imagine how you could do this.

Maybe it is some "designing" that I am not aware of.

In your case-it had to simply be a bad job of alignment.

I fell it is just something people say-without thinking about it.

I could be wrong-but just am not aware.

[ProSoundWeb Community]