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Author Topic: Where to go after a Midas M32  (Read 2827 times)

Brian Bingham

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Where to go after a Midas M32
« on: February 16, 2017, 01:05:23 pm »

So I'd like to take a step up from my Midas M32 to something a little more rider friendly. But I don't want to lose some of the things that I really like. For instance the EQ overlapping RTA (I feel like that's a must have when mixing monitors). Sometimes I can't hear the feedback but I can see it. Also I really like the rack effects. The emulated compressors like the Fair Compressor. I don't really want to have to run a laptop with Waves. I'd like to just have some extras built into the mixer.

I've been doing all the research I can but details and youtube videos are pretty scarce on some of these new mixers that have come out. Most of them I can't even find a manual on. The Allen & Heath C series Dlive has caught my eye as well as the soundcraft vi2000. Would those be more rider friendly or equally as rider friendly as an M32?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 01:09:21 pm »

AVID SC48.  Yeah, I know it's older and TDM will see no new plugins.  My guess is it's got another 5 years of rider acceptability.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Don T. Williams

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 03:34:52 pm »

For the event size and area where I'm located (Southwest USA and regional events), I've had good acceptance for my Pro 1 & 2 and M32's.  But . . . we are all guessing what "the next big thing" will be.  I have put my money on the dLive.  It's a really great board and the new "C" series make it much more affordable.  Hope I'm right!

With that said, I just provided "racks n' stacks" for an act with FOH and monitor M7CL's.  They are talking about replacing them with M32's.  Enough inputs, decent sound, compact, reliable.  It could pay you to wait it out and see what starts showing up on the riders. 

I talked to a guy at LDI doing larger events who is seeing SSL 500's on his tech riders.  He wasn't a happy camper!  More and more of my work is just racks n' stacks, lighting, and staging.  Maybe we won't need to own consoles soon!
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Luke Geis

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 06:36:11 pm »

Pretty soon engineers will be requesting Neve studio consoles with every piece of vintage gear that we now have in VST and AAX form. Why? because the industry is good at doing that. About the time a desired piece of tech becomes readily available to the masses at a price they can afford, the next step is to figure out how to make it unobtainable again. Just my pessimistic outlook.

Find riders in your area and buy the one that fits your budget and will move out the door. Don't be afraid to rent it when you need it. It is better to own the stuff that moves and makes a profit than to own the thing that only does what you need some of the time.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 06:49:13 pm »

What have YOUR customers been asking for?  You're looking for 'more rider friendly' consoles.  That all depends on the level of events that you do.

The behringer x32 quickly became pretty rider friendly for small/regional acts.  The M32, which is pretty darned close to the same thing is 'more rider friendly' mostly because it doesn't say Behringer on the outside. Functionally, they are identical, with the M32 having marginally better quality sound.

The biggest limiting factor of the x32 series stuff is the channel count limit.  If your shows are less than 32 channels (40 including auxes) getting something that is going to provide better sound quality is going to cost a huge amount.  Does the ROI justify that difference?
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Brian Jojade

William Schnake

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 08:17:09 am »

So I'd like to take a step up from my Midas M32 to something a little more rider friendly. But I don't want to lose some of the things that I really like. For instance the EQ overlapping RTA (I feel like that's a must have when mixing monitors). Sometimes I can't hear the feedback but I can see it. Also I really like the rack effects. The emulated compressors like the Fair Compressor. I don't really want to have to run a laptop with Waves. I'd like to just have some extras built into the mixer.

I've been doing all the research I can but details and youtube videos are pretty scarce on some of these new mixers that have come out. Most of them I can't even find a manual on. The Allen & Heath C series Dlive has caught my eye as well as the soundcraft vi2000. Would those be more rider friendly or equally as rider friendly as an M32?
Brian, we are a Midas/Yamaha shop and we rent an SC48 4 or 5 times a year.  We have the Midas Pro 2 along with the Yamaha QL5 as our primary mixers.  We also have the M32 and the X32 rack for conferences.  Most of the time it is Pro 2 at FoH and QL5 as a monitor desk, although we do interchange them from time to time.  We see the SC48 on almost all of the riders that we get.  However, we can usually talk with A1 for the act and they are happy with what we have.  If not I rent an SC48 for a couple of hundred a night.

If you are talking about renting an SC48 5 or 6 times a year, then I wouldn't purchase one and I would get something in the Yamaha line (everyone will take Yamaha as a second choice) to compliment what you have.

Bill
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 08:41:09 am »

Brian, we are a Midas/Yamaha shop and we rent an SC48 4 or 5 times a year.  We have the Midas Pro 2 along with the Yamaha QL5 as our primary mixers.  We also have the M32 and the X32 rack for conferences.  Most of the time it is Pro 2 at FoH and QL5 as a monitor desk, although we do interchange them from time to time.  We see the SC48 on almost all of the riders that we get.  However, we can usually talk with A1 for the act and they are happy with what we have.  If not I rent an SC48 for a couple of hundred a night.

If you are talking about renting an SC48 5 or 6 times a year, then I wouldn't purchase one and I would get something in the Yamaha line (everyone will take Yamaha as a second choice) to compliment what you have.

Bill
The Yamaha consoles have usually been a good for "if that's what you have then OK" customers.
The M7CL did very well as an acceptable substitute.
I suggest the QL5 or CL3. A step up from the M32 and something a lot of people can get around easily.
They both have great features, expandability, are networkable and good sounding.
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Brian Bingham

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 01:06:39 pm »

The SC48 is probably what I see on most riders that cross my desk. But I really don't want to buy one.

The Dlive series is what I want the most but I almost never see Allen & Heath on riders. So I'm a little iffy on dropping lots of cash on one but I'm sure I'd be happy mixing on it. Can anyone tell me if the RTA will overlap the EQ? I have a Qu-16 and you have to go to a separate screen to see an RTA.

The Yamaha QL5 was my planned upgrade path until I bought a TF5 to test out. The TF5 makes me feel like I have training wheels on while mixing. But obviously that board seems like it's designed for ease of use for a novice. I would imagine the QL5 wouldn't be the same way at all.

A pro series board seems like the logical upgrade path for me but being as it's absolutely nothing like the M32 I don't think I'd like it. Where the heck is that heritage d I saw photo shopped images of....

The soundcraft vi2000 looks pretty cool but no one ever talks about it. So probably not a good choice.

I think the tough thing for me is I'm looking to get a board we will be mixing on 90% of the time and the other 10% I would like it to be somewhat rider friendly because there is almost no where to rent boards around Fargo, ND. Would everyone agree that Yamaha would be the most universally accepted?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 01:34:02 pm »

The SC48 is probably what I see on most riders that cross my desk. But I really don't want to buy one.

The Dlive series is what I want the most but I almost never see Allen & Heath on riders. So I'm a little iffy on dropping lots of cash on one but I'm sure I'd be happy mixing on it. Can anyone tell me if the RTA will overlap the EQ? I have a Qu-16 and you have to go to a separate screen to see an RTA.

The Yamaha QL5 was my planned upgrade path until I bought a TF5 to test out. The TF5 makes me feel like I have training wheels on while mixing. But obviously that board seems like it's designed for ease of use for a novice. I would imagine the QL5 wouldn't be the same way at all.

A pro series board seems like the logical upgrade path for me but being as it's absolutely nothing like the M32 I don't think I'd like it. Where the heck is that heritage d I saw photo shopped images of....

The soundcraft vi2000 looks pretty cool but no one ever talks about it. So probably not a good choice.

I think the tough thing for me is I'm looking to get a board we will be mixing on 90% of the time and the other 10% I would like it to be somewhat rider friendly because there is almost no where to rent boards around Fargo, ND. Would everyone agree that Yamaha would be the most universally accepted?

There are riders out that that say "NO: Behringer, Peavey, Allen & Heath....." and then they list X32 as an acceptable mixer... go figure.

A-H made one shitty analog console about 30 years ago and they've never been forgiven by the copy 'n' paste, photocopy/fax folks at agencies and management companies... the ban lives forever until the last facsimile fades away.  I never mixed on that console and found the other analog A-H offerings pretty consistent with similar models from other manufacturers.  Shortly after the iLive came out I had a touring BE tell me "the only thing wrong with that mixer is the brand name."  For some reason the animosity toward A-H remains to this day in spite of A-H's consistent improvements.

I like mixing on AVID desks for the most part.  My least favorite "walk up and mix" professional consoles are the Midas Pro series and DigiCo.  Not because they are inferior (not at all) but because they really aren't walk up friendly, particularly if you have to re-commission the desk following a factory reset (yeah, it's happened).

I don't rely on the RTA functions in a console and greatly prefer to run Smaart or something similar because I have much greater control over the displayed contents, but that's my preference.

You're making a grave mistake if you think the CL5/Rio desks are anything at all like the TF series.  While you can make the TF work like a more traditional console the market it is targeted to does, in fact need training wheels.  You looked at exactly the wrong mixer for your skill set and uses.  Get a demo of the CL/QL series and you will have a very different opinion afterwards.

Soundcraft Vi series desks are not popular kids on the playground but the folks who use them really, really like them.

The joke going around is that Yamaha is everyone's SECOND choice.  While a BE may have a lust for something more exotic or trendy, he or she is almost guaranteed to have a show file for Yamaha on their USB stick.  Not so much for A-H or Midas Pro 6 or DigiCo variants unless one of those is the BE's preferred console.

If you and your crew will be doing 90% of the mixing buy whatever turns you on and makes ROI sense. I stand by my assertion that AVID Venue 3.x series mixers will continue to be accepted for another 5 years, at least on the fair/rodeo/community festival circuits.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Ray Aberle

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Re: Where to go after a Midas M32
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 02:10:56 pm »

You're making a grave mistake if you think the CL5/Rio desks are anything at all like the TF series.  While you can make the TF work like a more traditional console the market it is targeted to does, in fact need training wheels.  You looked at exactly the wrong mixer for your skill set and uses.  Get a demo of the CL/QL series and you will have a very different opinion afterwards.

The Yamaha QL5 was my planned upgrade path until I bought a TF5 to test out. The TF5 makes me feel like I have training wheels on while mixing. But obviously that board seems like it's designed for ease of use for a novice. I would imagine the QL5 wouldn't be the same way at all.
Exactly what Tim said. There's very much a major difference between the TF series and the QL/CL series. (And, some minor differences between the QL and the CLs, but not nearly as dramatic.) The TFs are definitely designed for a basic, introductory user-- think not even an LS9 level of user. The QLs and CLs are the way to go if you're looking at being able to satisfy guest BEs. They wouldn't take a TF5. Depending on the level of talent, they may even balk at the QL5. Nice thing, though, if you were to get both a QL5 and CL5 is that you could use the QL5 as your monitor board/'stage box,' and then Dante to FOH and the CL5. Saves getting an Rio box to start with. Actually, one company near to me has an Rio combo at both FOH and Monitors, and uses an analog snake to go between the two CL5s. Why? They dislike the gain compensation, so this allows each console to have its own pure HA gain. Now, you lose the advantages of having a digital snake in the first place, but they're not touring with it, so weight savings of digital over analog copper isn't a big concern for them.

A CL3 was mentioned- definitely a good foot in the door, with $5k in savings over a CL5-- but then you still have to get one or more Rio boxes to go with it. Only you can decide if loosing Bank C (and needing to purchase an external meter bridge, if you need it) is worth that $5k.

I also keep seeing requests for Profiles/SC48s, and one can be had for about the same cost as a CL3. But, then you have to wonder about getting in on the mid-later part of a product life cycle, as opposed to being on the top end. I had a local company ask if I wanted to buy their pair of M7CL-48s or PM5D-RHs, about 9,5 and 13,5 respectively -- and I had that some thought in my mind. Yeah, the CL5 we did get late last year was quite a bit more (twice the cost, for the CL5 and Rio3224 as opposed to a single PM5D-RH) money, but again, we're on the top part of the life cycle, and it'll be good for 10+ years. Probably not the same for the 5D.

-Ray
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